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post #91 of 5422 Old 07-13-2010, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
Skerr
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With the frame in the air AJ whacked both rails with a hammer. This is the stuff that fell out. I have racked my brain on how to clean/coat the inside of the rails but I can't figure it out!

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100_0694_1.JPG   100_0695_1.JPG  

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post #92 of 5422 Old 07-13-2010, 09:08 PM
VACJ7
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What about something like a chimney brush, but with a wire wheel on the end pushing back and forth? Or keep beating it with a hammer?

If you have seen Keith460's build I believe he taped up all the holes and filled the frame with Boiled Linseed Oil and sloshed it around inside to coat everything.
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post #93 of 5422 Old 07-13-2010, 09:27 PM
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Scott,

I went to the car wash and spent a bag of quarters to blow out the mud and dirt. Then I brought it home and lifted the trailer tongue and washed the frame it out again. A few days later my daughter taped all the holes in the frame and I poured a quart of primer in each rail. We flipped, tilted and rolled the frame around to spread the primer.

1978 Cherokee, TBI 360/T400/QT...6.0/6L80/NP241C in the works...
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post #94 of 5422 Old 07-13-2010, 09:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 243 View Post
Scott,

I went to the car wash and spent a bag of quarters to blow out the mud and dirt. Then I brought it home and lifted the trailer tongue and washed the frame it out again. A few days later my daughter taped all the holes in the frame and I poured a quart of primer in each rail. We flipped, tilted and rolled the frame around to spread the primer.
Just an automotive primer or something better than that? I remember reading about it... I was thinking about doing it with Ospho then some chassis black, but I don't know if the black would stick. What do you think?

I experimented with a piece of 1/2" PVC. You can shove it up the frame rail without too much trouble. It's pretty flexible. If I wasn't so lazy I'd make a trip to the local plumbing shop and get the parts to adapt it to my shop vac. That should work well as far as getting out the loose stuff. Maybe stick a T on the end and fram around with it inside the frame knocking scale off the sides.

Kerrdog
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But the right word at the right time... "Hey, give me a little hug!" That's the difference between lightning and a harmless lightning bug!
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post #95 of 5422 Old 07-14-2010, 05:11 AM
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I used Rustoleum Rusty Metal primer. I think by description it would be a good product to use inside the frame where the potential of pre-existing rust is very high. Using a swab of some sort is a good idea to knock off loose rust before priming.

Technical Data Sheet

http://www.rustoleumibg.com/images/t...mers%20209.pdf

"Rusty Metal Primer 7769 is designed for heavily rusted surfaces only. Clean Metal Primer 7780 is designed for lightly rusted, bare metal or previously painted surfaces."

"Remove all dirt, grease, oil, salt and chemical contaminants by washing the surface with commercial detergent or other suitable cleaner. Rinse thoroughly with fresh water and allow to fully dry. Scrape and wire brush loose and/or flaking rust or deteriorated coatings. Apply appropriate primer to bare, slightly, or heavily rusted metal."

1978 Cherokee, TBI 360/T400/QT...6.0/6L80/NP241C in the works...
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post #96 of 5422 Old 07-14-2010, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 243 View Post
I used Rustoleum Rusty Metal primer. I think by description it would be a good product to use inside the frame where the potential of pre-existing rust is very high. Using a swab of some sort is a good idea to knock off loose rust before priming.

Technical Data Sheet

http://www.rustoleumibg.com/images/tds/CBG_TDS%20Stops%20Rust%20Primers%20209.pdf

"Rusty Metal Primer 7769 is designed for heavily rusted surfaces only. Clean Metal Primer 7780 is designed for lightly rusted, bare metal or previously painted surfaces."

"Remove all dirt, grease, oil, salt and chemical contaminants by washing the surface with commercial detergent or other suitable cleaner. Rinse thoroughly with fresh water and allow to fully dry. Scrape and wire brush loose and/or flaking rust or deteriorated coatings. Apply appropriate primer to bare, slightly, or heavily rusted metal."
I stopped at Lowes on the way home from work today. An employee told me that it is a "small store", hence the poor inventory. So I wasn't expecting much as far as metal prepping material. I found several chemicals that I think would work, however. Here is a list of the chemicals (that I can remember) on the shelf and what I know, or DON'T know! My goal here is to find The Right Stuff to prep the exterior of the frame prior to priming.

Lacquer Thinner(usual stuff)- not gonna use it
V,P&M (or something like that)- don't know anything, label says cleans metal
MEK- old posts/threads say this works good, but dangerous?
Denatured Alcohol- old post/thread says this is good & I have some
Paint Thinner- not gonna use it either
Xylol(product of Toluol)- don't know anything
Pre-Paint Prep- green product, label says it works good
Acetone- mixed feelings about this, but I have some, always thought it good
Boiled Linseed Oil- not much info for metal prep

I would love to have everybody's insight. Thanks

PS- If a material, such as Acetone, is a solvent to a paint, then wouldn't it go by rule that that material could be used as a cleaner, to said same paint, without any ill effect after curing?

Kerrdog
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But the right word at the right time... "Hey, give me a little hug!" That's the difference between lightning and a harmless lightning bug!

Last edited by Skerr; 07-14-2010 at 04:02 PM. Reason: add comment
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post #97 of 5422 Old 07-14-2010, 04:11 PM
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I did the same thing as 243. Blasted with pressure washer and got all the junk out, taped up holes and poured in the Rustoleum. After it dried, I used a inspection mirror and was able to see most areas. Had a good thick hard coat. Not sure what it will look like in 10 years, but better than nothing.
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post #98 of 5422 Old 07-14-2010, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Eaglekeeper View Post
I did the same thing as 243. Blasted with pressure washer and got all the junk out, taped up holes and poured in the Rustoleum. After it dried, I used a inspection mirror and was able to see most areas. Had a good thick hard coat. Not sure what it will look like in 10 years, but better than nothing.
Agreed

Did all the paint stick, or did some pour out when you pulled off the tape?

Kerrdog
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But the right word at the right time... "Hey, give me a little hug!" That's the difference between lightning and a harmless lightning bug!
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post #99 of 5422 Old 07-14-2010, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerr View Post
...My goal here is to find The Right Stuff to prep the exterior of the frame prior to priming.

PS- If a material, such as Acetone, is a solvent to a paint, then wouldn't it go by rule that that material could be used as a cleaner, to said same paint, without any ill effect after curing?
Not necessarily. You want the surface to be free of anything before painting. Just because a chemical acts as a reducer or solvent to paint doesn't mean it's going to not leave behind something on the metal. Now, having said that, I use paint thinner all the time to clean metal before painting, but I wouldn't do that for body work though.

I would avoid MEK unless you have some serious safety gear.

For the exterior of the frame, I would use dentured alcohol as it will evaporate without leaving anything behind. Get some lint-free rags and wipe the frame with alcohol just before painting.

"I give you a republic, if you can keep it." - Benjamin Franklin
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post #100 of 5422 Old 07-14-2010, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ken4444 View Post
Not necessarily. You want the surface to be free of anything before painting. Just because a chemical acts as a reducer or solvent to paint doesn't mean it's going to not leave behind something on the metal. Now, having said that, I use paint thinner all the time to clean metal before painting, but I wouldn't do that for body work though.

I would avoid MEK unless you have some serious safety gear.

For the exterior of the frame, I would use dentured alcohol as it will evaporate without leaving anything behind. Get some lint-free rags and wipe the frame with alcohol just before painting.
Thanks, Ken. In a previous thread someone said (forgive me for not remembering who you are, but I remember what you said!) that denatured alcohol was good for prepaint prep. I took it to understand that it was a good dewaxer/degreaser, so I bought a gallon. I have been using it on everything painted lately, including the engine and associated parts. Is this a true concept? In the past, I have always used Acetone for prepaint prep, and I never had any problems. The first frame coating was prepped with a wipedown of Acetone, and you know that story (the coating came off)! Some believe that it leaves a film. Is that a true concept? Someone (same guy, I think) also said that the surface needs to be scuffed prior to paint, AFTER the surface prep, and I didn't do that before, thinking the paint would stick to a clean surface (perhaps that is the real key to my previous failure?). So what is the definitive answer here? Do you have to scuff regardless of what prep material you use? I have on hand denatured alcohol, Acetone, and Scotch-Brite pads. Will this do the trick FOR SURE?

Finally, a very rookie question... when y'all talk about tack cloths are you talking about lint-free cloths with solvent applied? What is an example of a lint-free cloth?

Thanks for your patience!

Kerrdog
Go Fish! <*////><

But the right word at the right time... "Hey, give me a little hug!" That's the difference between lightning and a harmless lightning bug!
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post #101 of 5422 Old 07-14-2010, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Skerr View Post
Agreed

Did all the paint stick, or did some pour out when you pulled off the tape?
The Rustoleum Rusty Metal primer is fairly thick. Since I hadn't welded the rear crossmember on, I had a straight shot into the frame. Plugged it with a rag, poured in a quart, flipped, tilted and rocked the frame around for about 10 min. Pulled the rag and only about 4 or 5 oz drained out. I put the frame back in the garage and pulled the tape. A small amount of primer dripped out, but nothing but a few drops.

In this pic, you can see the inside of the frame. It's coated that way through every place I looked. I copied this idea from 243 who has some good pics on his build thread pg 2.
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post #102 of 5422 Old 07-14-2010, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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SOLD! Can't argue with that! Nice work on the frame, BTW!

Kerrdog
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But the right word at the right time... "Hey, give me a little hug!" That's the difference between lightning and a harmless lightning bug!
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post #103 of 5422 Old 07-14-2010, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerr View Post
...Someone (same guy, I think) also said that the surface needs to be scuffed prior to paint, AFTER the surface prep, and I didn't do that before, thinking the paint would stick to a clean surface (perhaps that is the real key to my previous failure?). So what is the definitive answer here?
I believe the purpose of scuffing is to create a better physical bond between the paint and surface. It amounts to creating a rough surface for the paint to stick to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerr View Post
Do you have to scuff regardless of what prep material you use? I have on hand denatured alcohol, Acetone, and Scotch-Brite pads. Will this do the trick FOR SURE?
I'm not a painting professional, but I have read one thing in several places: Follow the directions that the manufacturer provides. They will know what chemicals should and shouldn't be used with their products. They'll know the best way to prep the surface. I would think a big brand like Rustoleum or an expensive brand like POR-15 would have technical support people who could assist if you called them. I'm sure they'd be willing to offer reccomendations in order to help folks get the best results possilble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerr View Post
Finally, a very rookie question... when y'all talk about tack cloths are you talking about lint-free cloths with solvent applied? What is an example of a lint-free cloth?
Being 100% lint-free is needed for body work, but for frame painting I think you could get by with a well-worn rag, old towels, that kind of thing. Just make sure it doesn't leave behind a trail of dust. You can buy real tack cloths and they are impregnanted with some kind of material that will cause dust to stick to it. I'm sure there's an official formulation but I don't know the specifics. You can probably buy "lint free" rags in the paint section at Lowes. For frame painting, I would call the paint manufacturer and ask them.

What does AJ say? He seems to know about this stuff.

"I give you a republic, if you can keep it." - Benjamin Franklin
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post #104 of 5422 Old 07-14-2010, 08:31 PM
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The more photos I see of CJ frames on sawhorses, the more I think I am destined to be in the same situation in 5 years. My frame is generally good, but I think I'm being eaten away by the concept that the only way to fix everything is to rebuld it all one piece at a time.

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"I give you a republic, if you can keep it." - Benjamin Franklin
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post #105 of 5422 Old 07-15-2010, 04:54 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ken4444 View Post
The more photos I see of CJ frames on sawhorses, the more I think I am destined to be in the same situation in 5 years. My frame is generally good, but I think I'm being eaten away by the concept that the only way to fix everything is to rebuld it all one piece at a time.
I know what you mean. It's like you want to "belong"! The frame work, for me, has not been fun. I would do it again if it was necessary, but I am not looking forward to it. In a very short time, you have provided much detailed and useful info for many "small" parts. Your threads are tools that can be saved and used over and over by everybody... this is sounding lame to me. Sorry about that but it's early and I gotta go to work. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't get in hurry to do your frame, unless it needs it. You're doing great already. "See ya' after work!

Kerrdog
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But the right word at the right time... "Hey, give me a little hug!" That's the difference between lightning and a harmless lightning bug!
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