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Unread 08-25-2014, 12:45 PM   #16
margotta78
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1980 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 74
Alright. I got a different solenoid and it worked. Got the one for the manual even though mine is an automatic. It started right up. Now for reference the new soleniod is the same on I had from before. Before as in my old soleniod before I changed everything out. Now as I said with the new solenoid meant for a standard trans it started the jeep. I drove it around the block to see how it would do. No problems until I went to turn the jeep off. Now the thing will not turn off with the key!!! It finally died on its own after about five minutes. Is this due to the ignition switch at the column?

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Unread 08-25-2014, 07:50 PM   #17
margotta78
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Fired it up again. I was reading on a different thread about the proper setup of the solenoid. And also some test to do. I did all of that. But still not turning off when the key goes back to the off position. I tried to start it up with the red wire on the I post off. It would not start. So I put the wire back on to the "I" post which is the coil. It then started right up. Again it would not turn off. So I just unhooked the wire to the "I" post and it died.
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Unread 08-26-2014, 07:48 AM   #18
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by margotta78 View Post
Fired it up again. I was reading on a different thread about the proper setup of the solenoid. And also some test to do. I did all of that. But still not turning off when the key goes back to the off position. I tried to start it up with the red wire on the I post off. It would not start. So I put the wire back on to the "I" post which is the coil. It then started right up. Again it would not turn off. So I just unhooked the wire to the "I" post and it died.
The I post on the solenoid is only supposed to provide volts when the starter is turning. There should be no volts there when the key is in run.

The proper solenoid has a ground tab on the bottom of it that hooks up to your neutral safety switch on the auto tranny. Without that, it can start in every gear.

Normally when it won't shut down, it indicates alternator feedback issues keeping the ignition alive. The test is to unplug the alternator when it won't shut down. The alternator also feeds that I terminal wire volts if back feeding.

Did you put the same kind of alternator in that was there before? Some types (cs I think) need a diode in the excite wire to prevent the feedback.
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 08-26-2014, 08:39 AM   #19
margotta78
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I went to Advanced and got the alternator. I hooked it up just the same as before. Like you said it has the wire from the alt. to the "I" post. I assume this is what charges your battery while you drive. Also I read through the Haynes Manual last night. It gives some info but it assumes that you know what they are talking about. Guess they need a Haynes Manual for Dummies lol. It did give a diagram for the fuses on the box. I am going to make sure they are all correct. I checked yesterday and found the 20amp fuse was not working. Going back out right now to mess with it.
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Unread 08-26-2014, 09:11 AM   #20
margotta78
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I tested the "I" post for volts with the key in the off position. No volts. Tested it in the on position and it had 11.6 volts to ground. Also I tried to unplug the alternator while running. It keep on running with the ALT unplugged. Tracing down the wires I see the red ALT wire, POS battery term, and red wire back to the ignition all are on the same post. In my mind the red ALT wire is what charges the battery while driving. So you said that the red wire going back to the fuse block could be back feeding. So I guess I can take that off of the solenoid and start it. Then try to turn it off and see what happens. Also what is the best way to kill the Jeep while it is running. I have been unhooking the battery to kill it. Is there a better way?
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Unread 08-26-2014, 09:22 AM   #21
Mike Romain
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Does this new solenoid have a jumper tab between the I and S posts? Have seen some like that. A meter on ohms between the posts would tell. There should only be power on the I terminal when the starter is running. The wire shows power in run, but the terminal shouldn't.

Oh leave the battery disconnected when not running, something is feeding the coil which could melt both it and the ICM down.
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 08-26-2014, 09:58 AM   #22
margotta78
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Not sure if the two posts are connected. I will have to check. If they are I should be able to do a conteniuty check right? Back to the original issue. It started with the jeep not wanting to start. Turn the key and nothing. Well since I replaced the solenoid(twice) it will start. But not turn off. The issue with the jeep not turning off popped up after the I got the last solenoid to work. Everything else is hooked up the same. Now with that said I am not sure which came first. Did a short somewhere kill my old solenoid? Or my new solenoid still not working correctly. Not to sound completly stupid here but what actually kills the engine when you turn the key off? I have focused so much energy trying to get things to run not turn off lol.
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Unread 08-26-2014, 10:46 AM   #23
Mike Romain
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The key provides power to the coil and ICM. Something else is now providing that power.
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
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Unread 08-26-2014, 11:08 AM   #24
Mike Romain
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One other thing to check that would do a favour if you could post back on. See if the I terminal has 12 volts on it with the battery hooked up and the wire off it and the key off. Someone else is having similar issues and if yours is like that too...
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
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Unread 08-26-2014, 11:21 AM   #25
kirkhurst
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Did you disconnect all the wires from the alternator or just the plug with the two wires for the internal voltage regulator (red and white wires)? Another question, you said you could kill it by disconnecting the battery.. was that with the key in the on position or in the off position? If your alternator is working correctly with the key in the on position the engine should not die because the alternator is providing the voltage required to keep it running (but I have never tried it with the key in the off position). I have had this same issue before and it turned out to be a shorted diode on the internal voltage regulator plug that was allowing the alternator to back feed the ignition system. I suspect you are having a simillar problem. To prove it's not an alternator issue remove all wires (tape them up for the test) from the alternator and try to start it and turn it off.. If it still will not turn off at least you have eliminated the alternator as the cause.
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Unread 08-26-2014, 12:18 PM   #26
margotta78
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Kirkhurst when I took the ALT loose I only unplugged the plug in. Which would be the red and white wire you are talking about. I didnt unhook the power wire that meets up with the positve wire from the battery. As for the diode you are talking about where is that thing located. I tried to follow the red wire to the fuse block but never saw anything in the line. I am about to go back out and try what you said. I am pretty sure that the key was in the off position when I disconnected the battery. Not a 100% sure about that though.
Mike as for the battery I did test the volts earlier when I was messing with it. It came back with a -12volt reading. Not sure why it read negative. That was with both + and - leads hooked up.
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Unread 08-26-2014, 12:30 PM   #27
margotta78
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Alright then!!! I took the ALT loose from the solenoid to test it. Then went to hook the battery positive wire up and the jeep tried to start. Scarred the crap out of me. The key is in the off position with the ALT taken loose. So I did a continuity test on the solendoid. I am getting flow from the Positive side of the solendoid to the other side to the starter. I tried banging on it to knock it loose. Did not work. Thinking I might have fried the little sucker.
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Unread 08-26-2014, 03:06 PM   #28
kirkhurst
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So just to be clear, you didnt have any wires hooked up to the solenoid other than the large guage wire to the starter and the wire from the battery (that you were trying to hook back up when it tried to start)? If thats the case then yea it sounds like it's fried... The diode is usually in the plug and connects the white and red wires however, I believe that in some later models it was internal to the alternator. If I remember correctly the red wire is always hot (i.e. fed from the battery) and the white wire is hot only when the ignition is on. Problem is, if the diode is external to the alternator (like mine was) and it's shorted it provides that battery voltage to the ignition all the time even if the connector is not plugged into the alternator.
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Unread 08-26-2014, 04:44 PM   #29
margotta78
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I still had the wires on the "I" and "S" terminal hooked up. I just took the red wire from the ALT to the solenoid loose and taped it up. Then went to attach the positive terminal on the battery. As soon as it hit the post it sparked and turned the engine over. I just stopped right there. So if the diode is in the white plug I should be able to cut the wires loose and get another plug right? And I am assuming you are talking about the plug that plugs into the ALT. So I guess I am still going to have to take that solenoid back for a new one. Where would I look for that plug with the diode at? Would one of the parts stores have those?
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Unread 08-26-2014, 04:55 PM   #30
kirkhurst
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Yes the plug that plugs into the alternator. I have seen the plugs with the diodes in the "help" section in several auto parts stores. And yes you can cut it loose and rewire the new one on. But, once you get a new solenoid I would just check it first with the alternator completely disconnected and you could just cut the white wire to prevent any back feed and resplice it if the alternator/diode turns out not to be the issue.
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