CJ7 258: How do you fix the Charcoal Canister? - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
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Unread 09-07-2008, 10:48 AM   #16
Mike Romain
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1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Off the Grid in Chester Grant, Nova Scotia, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icsssh View Post
While I try to track down a new canister, what's the best interim "solution":
1. unplug and seal all but the gas tank vent, leaving it plugged in to the canister?
2. leave the canister in place with all lines connected, and w/o a filter?
3. unplug and seal all but the gas tank vent, letting it vent into the air, with no canister at all?

Has anybody dealt with Mopar USA (http://moparusa.net/)
They list a replacement canister for $62--but I don't want to wait a month for them to get it in stock.
That is an excellent price! I paid that back in 1998, then went to get another one a couple years later for another person's Jeep and the local $tealership decided it wanted an 'extra' $100.00 just for fun so they charged $160.00! When I complained abut the $100.00 increase in a couple years, they told me to go pound sand, it was a stocking fee or some other such BS and they all were charging it up here in Canada.

I just ran with my gas tank and carb float bowl vent lines open at the canister with the PCV line and the ported line blocked while I was procrastinating about buying mine. I couldn't get away with it, way too many fumes. The fumes were getting in our clothes and hair even.

Your idle mix and speed will likely need to be reset when the canister is properly off at idle. If the computer is in there and no one has ever messed with the mix screws, then the computer will compensate. Not for the idle speed though.

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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 09-08-2008, 02:35 PM   #17
icsssh
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Well, I guess you can advertise any price for a part, if it is no longer made! Turns out the vacuum canister for an 86 CJ7 has been discontinued by Chrysler/Jeep. I called two dealers and they both confirmed this. I haven't had any luck finding a salvage replacement, so I now face the prospect of needing a long-term solution to my evaporative canister problem.

I noticed oil in the carb and around the PCV valve, which I understand can be the result of a plugged canister. So...what should I do with manifold vacuum line that currently connects to the canister? If I just plug the line, won't the problem continue? And will sludge build up in the crankcase? And likewise, what should I do with the ported vacuum line from the CTO valve that connects to the canister?

I don't really understand what the canister does, so this may be dumb, but--is there some kind of universal canister I could use? Or perhaps a later (still made) canister that I could use in place of the original?

I don't have a carb bowl vent, so I only have to deal with the PCV line, the CTO ported vacuum line and the gas tank vent.
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Unread 09-08-2008, 02:53 PM   #18
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icsssh View Post
So...what should I do with manifold vacuum line that currently connects to the canister? If I just plug the line, won't the problem continue? And will sludge build up in the crankcase? And likewise, what should I do with the ported vacuum line from the CTO valve that connects to the canister?

I don't really understand what the canister does, so this may be dumb, but--is there some kind of universal canister I could use? Or perhaps a later (still made) canister that I could use in place of the original?

I don't have a carb bowl vent, so I only have to deal with the PCV line, the CTO ported vacuum line and the gas tank vent.
One for a YJ 258 up to 91 also would work. I have heard of aftermarket ones but don't remember where they were.

It is the gas tank vent.

You basically just want something to store the gas fumes from the gas tank when it sits and some way of purging it clean. It is just a vent with no smell.

If you plug the line to the PCV, the PCV won't suck properly. Don't know what the long term affect that will have, but it can't be left open.

The line to the CTO can just be plugged too.

The line to the gas tank has to be open.
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
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Unread 09-08-2008, 03:19 PM   #19
jfwireless
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When I did my TBI conversion I went to the junkyard to look for solenoid operated charcoal canister I could hook up to my ECM. I pulled a solenoid operated canister out of a 90's TBI Cadillac. One thing I learned when programming the ECM is they make normally open and normally closed solenoid operated charcoal canisters. So I believe you could just go to the junkyard and find a normally open solenoid operated charcoal canister from a later model EFI vehicle and use that as your CTO and ported vacuum will purge the canister for you, no need to activate the solenoid. I guess you could test it by trying to blow air through it to see if it was normally open. Maybe someone knows which ones are normally open, the Cadillac turned out to be normally closed. In my case the ECM activates the solenoid on the canister to purge the stored gas fumes, no CTO.

The EPA dictated the canister as a means of preventing gas fumes from entering the atmosphere, a closed gas tank vent system. Ported vacuum and the CTO purge the canister of gas fumes by burning them up in the combustion process.

Jim
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Unread 09-08-2008, 04:44 PM   #20
icsssh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Romain View Post
If you plug the line to the PCV, the PCV won't suck properly. Don't know what the long term affect that will have, but it can't be left open.

The line to the CTO can just be plugged too.

The line to the gas tank has to be open.
So, I can plug the CTO line. And if I could live with it (and ignored the environmental consequences) I COULD leave the gas tank vent open.

But, if I don't want the oil/sludge to build up in the crankcase AND get into the carb, I DO sosme kind of evap canister to properly vent the PCV line.

Did I rephrase you correctly?
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Unread 09-09-2008, 07:54 AM   #21
twmattox
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You can take yours apart...and I recommend doing so. Basically, the canister is just a tube filled with activated charcoal (you can buy this stuff at any fish store). The problem with them is that the top of the canister is a grate that is lined with a sponge type material designed to prevent this charcoal from being sucked out. As the sponge breaks down, small chunks of charcoal are sucked out and into your engine...

What I have done is to cut the canister in half, cleaned it all out, lined the top with fine mesh hardware cloth (screen), filled with new charcoal, and hot glued it all back together. I am still debating some other way to strengthen this joint...
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Unread 09-09-2008, 08:31 AM   #22
icsssh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twmattox View Post
You can take yours apart...and I recommend doing so. Basically, the canister is just a tube filled with activated charcoal (you can buy this stuff at any fish store). The problem with them is that the top of the canister is a grate that is lined with a sponge type material designed to prevent this charcoal from being sucked out. As the sponge breaks down, small chunks of charcoal are sucked out and into your engine...

What I have done is to cut the canister in half, cleaned it all out, lined the top with fine mesh hardware cloth (screen), filled with new charcoal, and hot glued it all back together. I am still debating some other way to strengthen this joint...
Thanks--I'll give that a try. Is there a valve, per se, in the canister that can go bad? Or is it just a matter of the canister getting plugged up? I was looking at mine, and I can see how the bottom is somehow glued on at the factory.
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Unread 09-09-2008, 08:55 AM   #23
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twmattox View Post
You can take yours apart...and I recommend doing so. Basically, the canister is just a tube filled with activated charcoal (you can buy this stuff at any fish store). The problem with them is that the top of the canister is a grate that is lined with a sponge type material designed to prevent this charcoal from being sucked out. As the sponge breaks down, small chunks of charcoal are sucked out and into your engine...

What I have done is to cut the canister in half, cleaned it all out, lined the top with fine mesh hardware cloth (screen), filled with new charcoal, and hot glued it all back together. I am still debating some other way to strengthen this joint...
His issues is a blown purge valve, not saturated charcoal. This is a little 'rubber' diaphragm that tears.

Folks with worn out charcoal containers can put a clear gas line filter on the carb float bowl vent line to prevent black chunks from moving in a high vacuum situation.

This can't help, nor is it an issue icsssh because he has no float bowl vent as he stated.
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 09-09-2008, 10:03 AM   #24
JeepHammer
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Good thread!
Good information on testing and function!
I can't add to that.

My personal opinion is,
This IS our breathing air, so keeping the canister is a good idea.
-----------------------

FSM's from some other manufacturers say you should 'Dry' out the canister.
Low heat, under 150 degrees, for an extended period of time, like 15 hours.
Those same FSM's have a safety warning to use specific 'Tool Part Number' ovens to dry the canisters in, so I'm not going to buy an oven just to dry out one canister!...

IF the canister it's self is the problem, and it's not damaged externally, you can dry the canisters out, but DO NOT put them in a gas flame oven!

The canisters will off gas fuel vapor as they dry out internally and having them in with an open flame is a BAD IDEA!

If you find you need to replace the canister, I've not found anyplace that makes a direct replacment yet.

Canisters for Chevy trucks are still available, they have an extra vent you will have to cap, but that's no big deal.
Chevy used a round canister that was about the same size for may years while they were still using carburetors.

If you don't mind fabbing up a new bracket, there are several available for Ford that will work also.
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Unread 09-09-2008, 06:55 PM   #25
Minisink1
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Thank you all for your help, this is my first jeep and I am actually looking forward to the work ahead. That is as long as I keep my log on for Jeep Forum.
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Unread 09-10-2008, 09:43 AM   #26
Uncle Russ
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I had the same problem on my '84, my canister purge valve was leaking and I couldn't find a new one. I was able to get a used cannister from Willys Overland for about $45 with a guarantee it would work or send it back. It worked and my Jeep has been mucho happier since the R&R.

Good luck!
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Unread 09-10-2008, 12:48 PM   #27
icsssh
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As I continue to look for a new or used vapor canister, I need to refine my search a little, based on the input from this thread. Just for fun, I looked at my friend's '93 Wrangler, and he has a two-port canister, with some kind of senosr connected to it from the manifod, so I guess that wouldn't work.

Mike mentioned that vapor canisters for Jeeps through '91 should work, so that's one area of potential.

Jeephammer suggested that canisters for Chevy trucks are still available--can anyone be more specific about make/model of years I should look for?

He also mentioned Ford canisters working: again, can anyone provide models/years that might work?

I tried Willys Overland, but they couldn't help, although they said taht they'd make a few calls (haven't heard back yet).

Thanks,
Scott H.
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Unread 09-10-2008, 03:18 PM   #28
jeepmaniac
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I found a used one on an '86 Comanche pickup. Same ports on top, but had a funnel shaped cover over the filter on the bottom. Cherokees of that vintage might also have the same canister.
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Unread 09-10-2008, 03:46 PM   #29
whittlecj
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Have you tried Collins Bros? Forgive if you'd already mentioned it. They have lots of parts.
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Unread 09-21-2008, 10:48 AM   #30
icsssh
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I found a new canister for my '86 CJ7. It's an AC Delco, part number AC2-215-12. Not sure what it is actually made for, but it is similar enough in size and shape to the original canister that I was able to slip it into the existing bracket and tighten it down. One caveat: it only has three ports--for the fuel line, the purge vacuum from the carb, and the manifold vacuum from the PCV valve. There is no carb bowl vacuum, so if you need that port it won't work. Since the Weber I have on the Jeep doesn't use the carb bowl vent, it worked perfectly for my application.
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