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Unread 10-02-2011, 02:46 PM   #31
GlennLever
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Ok, this is the start of the first task that I knew had to be done when I purchased this Jeep. The steering has a dangerous amount of play in it. You can turn the steering wheel almost a 1/4 turn before there is any movement in the tires. With the Jeep idling you can reach in and turn the steering intermediate shaft and see that there is no movement in the pitman arm. I decided that if I was going to do this I would replace the intermediate steering shaft, power steering gear box and hoses, all the tie rod ends as I will be running 31 X 10.50 X 15 tires.

I purchased all "Crown" steering components. The Jeep Forum was a little down on "Crown" quality, so I relented, and purchased all Moog tie rod ends. I will compare the quality of the two company’s products and return the weak stuff. So here goes.

I removed the radiator to gain access to the power steering lines that go to the gear box. When I did that the radiator fell apart and I found green corrosion on the bottom tank, time for a new radiator.

Below are some of the pictures, to see all of them go to the link below for more pictures and commentary.

http://www.leverfamilysite.com/1984_...2011_10_01.htm


dsc_0048.jpg   dsc_0049.jpg   dsc_0055.jpg   dsc_0065.jpg   dsc_0066.jpg  

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Glenn R. Lever
Rochester, New York 14617-2012
My Cars http://www.leverfamilysite.com/vehicles.htm

My restoration thread here on the Jeep forum
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cj...build-1269301/

New FED, Drag Racing Forum (I am an Administrator) at
http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php
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Unread 10-02-2011, 02:49 PM   #32
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Below are some more of the pictures, to see all of them go to the link below for more pictures and commentary.

http://www.leverfamilysite.com/1984_...2011_10_01.htm

Note broken off bolt. Most bolts break flush to the surface, this one didn't. I may be able to heat the frame and back the bolt out with a pair of vise grips. A job for tomorrow.
dsc_0076.jpg   dsc_0079.jpg   dsc_0086.jpg  
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Glenn R. Lever
Rochester, New York 14617-2012
My Cars http://www.leverfamilysite.com/vehicles.htm

My restoration thread here on the Jeep forum
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cj...build-1269301/

New FED, Drag Racing Forum (I am an Administrator) at
http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php
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Unread 10-02-2011, 03:04 PM   #33
Falcon_CMH
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Good luck man that's some serious surgeory but neccesary glad you could do it so soon!
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Unread 10-03-2011, 11:38 AM   #34
GlennLever
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Vendors or better put, customer service representatives make me want to pull my hair out.

The radiator Barn http://www.radiatorbarn.com/search.php?product=radiator offers a Spectra two row for $345.62

RockAuto offers three Spectra ratiators
SPECTRA PREMIUM Part # CU583 15-7/8" Between Tanks; Heavy Duty Cooling $186.79
SPECTRA PREMIUM Part # CU58 16-3/4" Between Tanks $220.79
SPECTRA PREMIUM Part # CU80315-5/8" Between Tanks; Standard Duty Cooling $237.70

The inlets and outlets and cap are right where they should be, the lower outlet is angled up as it should be.

The one in the Jeep has 15 5/8 between the tanks but is a three row. The three row spectra is 15 7/8. (The core width is correct)

I have ordered the three row Spectra and crossed my fingers. I would think that I should be able to locat the radiator so that it will fit.
Row No 3
Core Height 15 7/8"
Core Width 24 1/4"
Core Depth 1 7/8"
Inlet Header 2 3/4" x 24 5/8"
Outlet Header 2 3/4" x 24 5/8"
Inlet 1 1/2"
Outlet 1 1/2"
Engine Oil Cooler None
Transmission Oil Cooler 12" (Concentric)

The nearest warehouse that has it is in Texas, (they say is 1-5 days away, I know it is zone 5 which is five day) so I have paid an additional $30 to get it here for the weekend.

Also ordered a OEM Radiator Shroud For 81-86 Jeep® CJ 6CYL with Heavy Duty Cooling and a 6 blade fan Radiator Fan for 72-83 Jeep® CJ-5, CJ-6, CJ-7 & CJ-8 (they assured me that it fits 71-86 even though the description says 72-83) from quadratec because they are located in Pa. and with standard shipping will be here in the middle of the week.

Ok, parts are on order for the weekend, time to go back to work on the kitchen to keep the better half happy.
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Glenn R. Lever
Rochester, New York 14617-2012
My Cars http://www.leverfamilysite.com/vehicles.htm

My restoration thread here on the Jeep forum
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cj...build-1269301/

New FED, Drag Racing Forum (I am an Administrator) at
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Unread 10-09-2011, 05:01 AM   #35
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Install a bunch of parts this weekend, parts installed were steering gear box,, from Crown, but made for Crown by AGR (MB Motorsports), Crown tie rod kit, also purchased Moog Tie rod ends, Crown P/S Hoses, Heavy Duty intermediary steering colum and a SPECTRA PREMIUM Part # CU583 15-7/8" Between Tanks; Heavy Duty Cooling purchased through RockAuto.

'm not so sure how heavy duty it is as the upper universal joint is certainly not as heavy duty as the stock one is (see below), but they have eliminated the lower "rag" joint. I will keep an eye on this, but as this will be a daily driver with little off road use I will install it.

I compared the Crown tie rod ends to the Moog and decided to use the Moog one. I did keep the steering knuckle to steering knuckle crown kit to use the link as the one in the Jeep was bent.

The Crown hoses were almost an exact match, only a very small amount of twicking was necessary to get them to fit just right.

Before installing any part I could powder coat I did, any part not powder coated I painted.

I have updated my web site with many detailed pictures that can be seen at theis link

http://www.leverfamilysite.com/1984_...2011_10_01.htm

The top half of the page is from the last update, the bottom half of the page is all new.
dscn9593.jpg   dscn9596.jpg   dscn9630.jpg   dscn9640.jpg   dscn9657.jpg  

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Glenn R. Lever
Rochester, New York 14617-2012
My Cars http://www.leverfamilysite.com/vehicles.htm

My restoration thread here on the Jeep forum
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cj...build-1269301/

New FED, Drag Racing Forum (I am an Administrator) at
http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php
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Unread 10-13-2011, 03:49 PM   #36
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Well, after installing the tie rod ends, steering gear box, and intermediate shaft, off to the alignment shop we went.

Found that the front springs were sagged, caster was at 2.9 (to low), and the camber was negative (tire are tilted in at the top).

Attempted to order from Quadratec everything to install a 2.5 inch lift with Old Man EMU springs. They did not have the front and rear shackle kits, or the front and rear Old Man EMU shock for the 2.5 inch lift. They were also not aware that the Old Man EMU springs for a CJ actually require a conversion to YJ springs.

Their phone support was not clear on how the conversion kit YJ to CJ worked with the front middle spring pockets.

I talked with Old Man EMU technical support (425-264-1391 , Mark), which was excellent. Turns out that OL Man EMU is an Australian company and everything is metric. The springs are not 2.5 inch wide YJ springs, but 60 millimeters wide and with a special thin wall bushing the “YJ” springs fit into the CJ spring pockets for the front. They also suggested ordering through a company that actually does the conversion and installs their product on vehicles.

I ended up talking with OK auto 4WD & Tire, 2621 Route 57, Stewartsville, NJ 08886, 908-454-6973. One note is “All sales are final 20% handling charged on returned merchandise” When you order, you better be sure you want what you order.

This is what was ordered and should be a complete list of what you need to do an Old Man EMU CJ to YJ conversion to a 2.5 inch lift (note the 2.5 inch lift was for the YJ, on the CJ it should be more like a 2 inch lift. Also they have light; medium, heavy duty springs for this conversion. As I will never install a winch, have the 258 six, no A/C, but do have the hard top for the winter. I ordered the “Hard Top” springs for the rear (median duty) and the light duty for the front. This was their suggestion. If at sometime in the future I want heavier spings in the front Old Man EMU sells am extra leaf kit.

2 ARBCS014F OLD MAN EMU DAKAR LEAF SPRINGS FRONT
2 ARBCS036R OLD MAN EMU DAKAR LEAF SPRINGS REAR
2 ARBOMEGS11 OLD MAN EMU GREASABLE BUSHINGS
4 ARBOMESB87 OLD MAN EMU BUSHES (OEM)
4 ROK40916 9/16x4.5 GRSABLE BOLT/NUT
2 ROK40100 ARB BUSH SPRING MOUNTS
1 ROK44000 CJ/YJ CONV. U/BOLT PLATES
2 ARBN42 OLD MAN EMU NITROCHARGED SHOCKS FRONT
2 ARBN56 OLD MAN EMU NITROCHARGED SHOCKS REAR
1 ROK4E50010 U BOLT KIT
1 ROK4E50020 U BOLT KIT


In addition and separately I have also ordered 2 eccentric lower ball joints to correct the negative camber.

Then it will be back to the alignment shop which has on hand angle shims from 1 degree to 6 degrees. I will keep you updated.

All the pieces are due to be here on Monday.
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My restoration thread here on the Jeep forum
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cj...build-1269301/

New FED, Drag Racing Forum (I am an Administrator) at
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Unread 10-13-2011, 04:18 PM   #37
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Good luck, project creep is a killer but you'll be glad you did it right in the end. BTW got my T18 tranny can't wait to get that puppy in. My axles fell through. I am going with the BDS 2 1/2" lift in parts because I want different shocks etc. (Although they made a strong case for Fox shocks).
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Unread 10-13-2011, 04:27 PM   #38
GlennLever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_CMH View Post
Good luck, project creep is a killer but you'll be glad you did it right in the end. BTW got my T18 tranny can't wait to get that puppy in. My axles fell through. I am going with the BDS 2 1/2" lift in parts because I want different shocks etc. (Although they made a strong case for Fox shocks).
I had intended to do a lift, just not this quick. I also want to do a one inch dby lift, but will awit and see how this looks.
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Glenn R. Lever
Rochester, New York 14617-2012
My Cars http://www.leverfamilysite.com/vehicles.htm

My restoration thread here on the Jeep forum
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cj...build-1269301/

New FED, Drag Racing Forum (I am an Administrator) at
http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php
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Unread 10-17-2011, 06:41 PM   #39
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It has been one of those days. I’ll only talk about Jeep related stuff.

All the parts for the lift were ordered last Wednesday from OK auto 4WD & Tire to be shipped out on Thursday to arrive on Monday (today) the parts they did not have were to be drop shipped from Old Man EMU in Washington three day UPS to be here on Monday.

So you probable can guess where this is going.

The only thing that arrived was one small box of bushings.

I call OK auto 4WD & Tire and was given a tracking number which return invalid tracking number of the FedEx site.

I call them back and they said that is because it takes 24 hours for the tracking number to be valid. I reminded them that it was to be shipped last Thursday and they responded by saying that it was shipped today.

I’m getting used to this kind of service / uncaring customer support so I did not lose my temper.

I asked them to check all the parts that were ordered and to be sure none were on back order and get back to me.

They called back and stated that there stuff would be here Wednesday. That not all the stuff that was supposed to be shipped out of Washington did get shipped but the stuff that was missed was shipped out one day and that was the box that I had received. The second box which is marked 2 day express and was shipped on Thursday will not be here until Wednesday (six days for a two day package).

So…. To keep the project moving I thought I would order the new carburetor

Having read some of the threads on Weber Carburetors I put a call into Carburetors Unlimited with some questions on making the right choice between a 32/36mm progressive or 38mm synchronous Weber (http://www.carburetion.com/after.htm).

I got a jerk of a sales person that would not communicate but wanted to know which I was going to order. I got a tech support number out of him, called it got a voice mail, left a message asking for a return call which never came

It seems like there are many threads on the Weber Carburetor conversion is that because there are no American Carburetor conversions? Or because the Weber Carburetor works best?
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Glenn R. Lever
Rochester, New York 14617-2012
My Cars http://www.leverfamilysite.com/vehicles.htm

My restoration thread here on the Jeep forum
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cj...build-1269301/

New FED, Drag Racing Forum (I am an Administrator) at
http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php
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Unread 10-21-2011, 08:58 AM   #40
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Glenn, let me relate to you some insight from phone calls I had made a couple months ago and see if you got a similar take. It all started with a phonecon with Qtec about their conversion kit pictured. I was trying to price this stuff out individually to get the best bang for my buck based on what I wanted. Turns out the picture is wrong and not what they actually sell. So I then spoke with "TR" at ARB who seemed to be very knowledgable. He said ARB/OME does not make a conversion kit (which Qtec said they did but another rep said it was from Omix) but their springs are used in some other companies kits. He referred me to Mike at OK4WD who he said was "the guru" of the CJ to YJ swap. He said they offer 3 kits, one from BDS which is what they sell to Qtec, one they make (Rock Equip.) that's just the brackets, and then a full kit which is the bracket kit plus ome springs, bushings and shocks. He also said their kit was designed using those springs (ome). He said he's sold over 200 and installed several himself, including his own, and he's never had to remove the front rivet and move the front shackle mount forward an inch, like some have claimed they did, which maybe with stock shackles you need to.
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Unread 10-21-2011, 11:38 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade82 View Post
Glenn, let me relate to you some insight from phone calls I had made a couple months ago and see if you got a similar take. It all started with a phonecon with Qtec about their conversion kit pictured. I was trying to price this stuff out individually to get the best bang for my buck based on what I wanted. Turns out the picture is wrong and not what they actually sell. So I then spoke with "TR" at ARB who seemed to be very knowledgable. He said ARB/OME does not make a conversion kit (which Qtec said they did but another rep said it was from Omix) but their springs are used in some other companies kits. He referred me to Mike at OK4WD who he said was "the guru" of the CJ to YJ swap. He said they offer 3 kits, one from BDS which is what they sell to Qtec, one they make (Rock Equip.) that's just the brackets, and then a full kit which is the bracket kit plus ome springs, bushings and shocks. He also said their kit was designed using those springs (ome). He said he's sold over 200 and installed several himself, including his own, and he's never had to remove the front rivet and move the front shackle mount forward an inch, like some have claimed they did, which maybe with stock shackles you need to.
The short answer is Yes, everything you have said above is exactly what I found out.

The long answer is even the complete kit does not seem to be complete.

I did move the front shackle mount forward per the instructions on Qtec web site
Missing from the complete kit seems to be the following
Longer brake hoses for the front and rear
Longer sway bar links
Possible new CV joint rear drive shaft to correct drive line angle (need to get it on the ground to check)
Possible angle wedges for the rear axle to correct pinion angle (need to get it on the ground to check)

The true story is you never get the whole story. I asked a lot of questions before I started but did not get all the answers. (I’m a hot rodder at heart and this is just a hot rodding normal process) You just have to keep working at it until you get it right.
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Glenn R. Lever
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My Cars http://www.leverfamilysite.com/vehicles.htm

My restoration thread here on the Jeep forum
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cj...build-1269301/

New FED, Drag Racing Forum (I am an Administrator) at
http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php
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Unread 10-23-2011, 08:07 PM   #42
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In the last update I installed a new steering gear box, in this one I take it back out.

Here is a link to my web site with many picture, there are a few below.
http://www.leverfamilysite.com/1984_...2011_10_24.htm


I purchased this Jeep after looking for a Jeep that basically had not been modified and was in really sound condition. I really could not test drive it as it was unsafe for the road with the steering the way it was.

I diagnosed it to be a steering box problem, by running the jeep and turning the intermediate steering column with my hand (power steering), and watching the pitman arm. I could turn the intermediate steering column ¼ turn before the pitman arm would even begin to move.

So….. with 85,000 miles on the Jeep and 31 inch tires, wanting a reliable daily driver, I replaced everything from/including the intermediate steering column to the steering knuckles (heavy duty intermediate steering column, AGR steering box, used the old pitman arm (powder coated it) all moog tie rod ends.

I took it for a test drive and it was much better, but the steering wheel would not return after a corner. I called AGR and explained what I had done and that I thought the steering box was tight. They wanted me to put a 100 miles on the box and call them back.

I took it to the alignment shop and everything was off toe, caster, camber.

It was diagnosed as Bad front ball joints, sagged front springs.

So…..rather than install new stock springs, and knowing I wanted a small lift to try and retain the stock look I installed a complete Old Man EMU 2.5 lift kit (This is actually a YJ to CJ conversion as Old Man EMU does not offer springs for the CJ (difference being the front spring width)). Installed four Moog Problem solver ball joints, and install two new universal joints while the axle was apart. I would have replaced the seals but could not find the correct ones and will go back and do that when I have them.

Returned to the alignment shop. They installed Caster wedges and all the measurements (caster, camber, and toe) were set on the money.

The steering wheel still does not return after a corner. As yet I still do not have the requested 100 miles on the gear box.

If I crank the wheel full left or right it just goes in circles with no attempt to return to center.

When I was putting it to gether I started at the Intermediate steering column and worked my way down.

I tried tuning the steering wheel with just the intermediate shaft and the box no pitman arm or tie rod end and it was very stiff.

I will jack the front end up today and try turning the tire and wheel with everything hooked up, than separate the tie rod from the pitman arm and try again.

Pulled the Jeep into the garage and jacked up the front.

I could not move the tires left or right even with both hands.

Rather than pop the tie rod end and tear the boot with the pickle fork I pulled the pitman arm.

I can move the tires left and right fully with one hand with very little effort.

I knew it when I turned the steering wheel the first time after I installed the box and felt how tight it was the box was not right.

I was in a hurry to get to drive it. I should have stopped right then and there and sent it back. They had done a welding repair to it and the bolts did not align correctly either.

Now I'm going to do it right and take my time. I'm also going to fix the radiator spacing problem and install a fan shroud. http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/ra...grill-1275286/

There are other tasks that need to be done while I wait for the new box (longer brake hoses, extend the sway bar links, replace all the sway bar and link bushings, the new carb is on the way so I can play with that also).

I'm also going to look at the drive line angle coming out of the transfer case and fix that if needed. http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/dr...-lift-1276807/

I was in such a hurry I did not take good pictures of the spring install. Below is the spring install.

Ok that is the background for this update.


Ok it is out, but wait what happened to the front of the Jeep, it is missing parts!

Well the story is now I'm going to do it right and take my time. I'm also going to fix the radiator spacing problem and install a fan shroud.
I'm also going to fix the rust on the windshield, front grill and paint the doors to match.
dsc_0220.jpg   dsc_0228.jpg   dsc_0237.jpg   dsc_0240.jpg   dsc_0241.jpg  

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Glenn R. Lever
Rochester, New York 14617-2012
My Cars http://www.leverfamilysite.com/vehicles.htm

My restoration thread here on the Jeep forum
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cj...build-1269301/

New FED, Drag Racing Forum (I am an Administrator) at
http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php
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Unread 10-24-2011, 03:32 AM   #43
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Bagging and tagging your parts I see. I literally had hundreds of bags in storage bins when doing the restoration and even built a 3 tier, 4'x8' shelf to store all the parts on. It's the only way you can keep parts organized and ready to install when the time comes IMHO.
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Unread 10-24-2011, 06:18 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith460 View Post
Bagging and tagging your parts I see. I literally had hundreds of bags in storage bins when doing the restoration and even built a 3 tier, 4'x8' shelf to store all the parts on. It's the only way you can keep parts organized and ready to install when the time comes IMHO.
Yes sir!
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Glenn R. Lever
Rochester, New York 14617-2012
My Cars http://www.leverfamilysite.com/vehicles.htm

My restoration thread here on the Jeep forum
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cj...build-1269301/

New FED, Drag Racing Forum (I am an Administrator) at
http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php
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Unread 10-24-2011, 07:11 AM   #45
Matt1981CJ7
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Can I assume that, along with bagging and tagging, you guys are also taking pictures of everything before disassembly? I'm going to be tearing mine down, soon, and my biggest fear is forgetting how, or in what order, it all came apart.

Glenn, I hope your new steering box and carb install go smoothly. Which carb did you settle on?

FYI, my driveshaft angles were fine, and I did not have to modify my sway bar links at all, when I installed my 2.5" OME lift.

Matt
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