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Unread 03-01-2009, 12:03 PM   #1
SuB8HaVeN
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Carter YF experts, I'm running way too rich

I've got the Carter YF on my L-226 I6 in the Willys. It runs great and everything, but it was running rich as can be, and the adjustment screw did almost nothing.

So last night I took it apart and rebuilt it, expecting a catastrophic failure inside of it, but it really looked fine. The float is the newer brass style, works fine and seems to be adjusted according to service manual spec's. I cleaned everything out, installed new gaskets, and blew out all the passages. I also replaced the pump diaphragm and everything contained in the rebuild it. I put it back together, cranked it up, and now it seems to be dumping more fuel and still won't adjust at all with the idle adjusting screw. I did clean out some crap in the bowl and the pump was in very sad shape, so it runs better now, but is still running incredibly rich. I can screw the adjustment all the way in, and all the way out, and there's no difference.

At this point, the only thing I can think of is that someone rebuilt it at one time and used the wrong jet, or pulled the entire carburetor off a different motor and the jets are inherently way too large. Does anyone else have any ideas? I wish I could find the correct jet size for my application, but for some reason my factory service manual doesn't even have it, and online they only have the sizes on the F-134 and the newer AMC I6s. I reinstalled the jet when I pulled it all apart and it looked fine, I thought I remember it being stamped 70 on the top. The kit did not come with new jets or anything.

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1961 Willys 4x4 Wagon L-226 I6 T90 (restoration also in progress)
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Unread 03-01-2009, 01:56 PM   #2
John Strenk
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First if you cant adjust the idle mixture it may be because you have the throttle open to far and is switching over to the primary circuit. This will make the mixture uncontrollable. Make sure you have the RPMs down to less than 700 RPM. My engine wouldn't run under 950 RPM because of the ignition. Once I fixed that it was fine.

The pump diaphragm actually does two things. It shoots gas into the engine of course but what a lot of people don't realize is that it also controls the mixture. If you used to much gasket cement and plugged up the hole on the vacuum port it will run rich all the time when the throttle is open.

The older YF's work similar to the later ones.

Let me upload some pictures soon to explain.

Lets see if this works:

What looks like it might be the pump actuating it's actually the vacuum in the manifold acting on the diaphragm making it go up and down depending upon it's load.
maincircuit.gif  

Last edited by John Strenk; 03-01-2009 at 06:17 PM..
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Unread 03-01-2009, 02:32 PM   #3
molsenice
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I am all over suscribing to this thread - with John on it - you problem shall soon be resolved - you are in good hands.

and I might find the time to straigten out my 2 with the info soon to come
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Unread 03-01-2009, 03:10 PM   #4
SuB8HaVeN
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Haha, I agree.

When I'm fooling with the idle adjustment, it is at idle. Obviously no tach, but around 500-700RPM from what I can tell. It idles smooth as can be and runs great, but just extremely rich. It tends to run rich at idle as well as when the throttle is open. I didn't use any cement on the pump diaphragm because the rebuild kit came with a gasket for it. I also made sure to blow out that vacuum port on the diaphragm, and the little metal ball and everything looked OK.
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Unread 03-01-2009, 06:19 PM   #5
John Strenk
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Somehow we will have to make sure the diaphragm isn't damaged. Any leakage of gas out the carb when shut off so it's hard to start in a couple of days of sitting?

Do you have a vacuum gauge?
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Unread 03-01-2009, 06:35 PM   #6
SuB8HaVeN
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It's funny you mention that, the wagon is actually better at cold starting than my CJ. I left it for 2 weeks without running it the other day and it fired right up after about 1 second, so it's not leaking out at all from what I can tell. I can look down in the carburetor when it's running and I can tell it's really pouring out some serious fuel out of the main discharge nozzle in the picture above.

I'm starting to wonder if this has something to do with the metering rod. When I was putting it back together it seemed that it should go farther into the metering rod jet than it does, but according to all the diagrams and instructions it's all reinstalled correctly.

I don't have a vacuum gauge, but I don't believe there are any vacuum leaks since if I cover the mouth of the carburetor with my hand it cuts off real quick and pulls pretty hard on your hand. All of the seals are new too from the rebuild kit.
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Unread 03-02-2009, 02:42 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuB8HaVeN View Post
It's funny you mention that, the wagon is actually better at cold starting than my CJ. I left it for 2 weeks without running it the other day and it fired right up after about 1 second, so it's not leaking out at all from what I can tell. I can look down in the carburetor when it's running and I can tell it's really pouring out some serious fuel out of the main discharge nozzle in the picture above.
At idle? if so then this is the problem. There should be no gas coming out of the discharge nozzle at idle. It could indicate the fuel level is to high or the throttle is open to far but if you think your idle speed is OK then I would check the float level again. Make sure there is no fuel in the float also. When you rev it up though you should see the gas comming out but not at idle.

Quote:
I'm starting to wonder if this has something to do with the metering rod. When I was putting it back together it seemed that it should go farther into the metering rod jet than it does, but according to all the diagrams and instructions it's all reinstalled correctly.
This is simple. First make sure the idle speed screw is backed all the wa out so it's not hanging the throttle open. Then is depress the pump shaft and adjust the screw until the needle just hits the floor of the well and then give the screw on more turn clockwise. see if you can make sure the needle does go all the way in first. if it's hanging up then it can run way to rich.



Quote:
I don't have a vacuum gauge, but I don't believe there are any vacuum leaks since if I cover the mouth of the carburetor with my hand it cuts off real quick and pulls pretty hard on your hand. All of the seals are new too from the rebuild kit.
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Unread 03-02-2009, 06:53 AM   #8
SuB8HaVeN
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Alrighty, thanks for the info and the diagrams. I am 95% certain that the metering rod is not fully seating. At idle, there is a drop of fuel coming out of the discharge nozzle every 2 seconds or so, but it's really pouring out of there when you open the throttle some.

My Carter YF doesn't have an adjustment screw like the illustration above, so I guess I'll have to bend the lip as in the other diagram. The rebuild kit came with instructions on adjusting it, and my service manual has the same thing, and they all match what you have above, so that should work.

I'm also going to check and make sure it's not damaged where the metering rod goes down into the casting. The metering rod itself looked OK to me when I removed it during the rebuild. Is there a jet that the metering rod goes down into? Maybe that could be damaged as well?? I'll have to check on the float adjustments again too when I have it out, but I'm pretty certain it was correct and the float was in real good shape.
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Unread 03-02-2009, 09:08 AM   #9
John Strenk
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Yes there should be a jet down in that hole.

What does the top of your YF look like? You think you said it wasn't that old but it sounds like it.

Have you tried the guys over on www.earlycj5.com ??
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Unread 03-02-2009, 09:18 AM   #10
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I read through a lot of posts on the earlycj5.com forum, but a lot of those guys are either having issues with altitude or the float. I'm going to give it one more attempt this weekend as I don't think the metering rod is seating right. My YF has the original manual choke, it's got the open top pointing straight up and looks to be original to the Willys, but it's pretty clean inside so I'm betting on a recent rebuild by PO.

I'm wanting to go with a 350cfm Holley 2300, what are your thoughts on running that? Is it going to be too much carburetor for the old flathead I6? I also have an Accel coil to up the ante with the ignition a bit, and I'm going to be searching for some upgraded plug wires in the next months.
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Unread 03-02-2009, 09:47 AM   #11
John Strenk
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Well for ease of an upgrade I would go with a newer YJ 1 bbl.

The 2300 will require an "interesting" adapter. Large 2bbl to 1 bbl. How about a Holley/Weber 5200. There is an interesting discussion on a conversion going on right now.

Is the intake manifold on the 226 removable?

I've seen interesting things fone on Ford I6 with 3 or 3 YF's on the intake because the intake is part of the head.
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Unread 03-02-2009, 11:47 AM   #12
SuB8HaVeN
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The intake manifold is separate from the exhaust and head. I've seen the Ford and AMC I6 intake manifolds for the 3 carb setup, but boy are they expensive. I think I'm stuck with the 1bbl manifold since that was all that was ever made for the L-226, so I guess for a 2bbl setup I'll need an adapter. I'm going to see what I can find.
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Unread 03-07-2009, 05:24 PM   #13
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Alright, I took apart the carburetor again today and adjusted the metering rod. I fooled around with it and when you pushed down on the pump diaphragm, the metering rod was not bottoming out. I bent the lip to get it to seat deeper, and it works incredible now. The adjustment screw actually makes a difference now, and it no longer squirts fuel out of the main discharge nozzle at idle. It's hesitating a bit when you rev it up now, so eventually I will take it apart and fine tune it more, but the important part is that I can be near it while it runs now without tearing up.

On another note, I just wired up a new ignition switch and all of a sudden the turn signal is working now! Woohoo!
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Unread 03-08-2009, 01:50 AM   #14
John Strenk
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COngradulations!

Next time you take it apart, take lots of pictures. I'd like to get some pictures of that carb.
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Unread 03-08-2009, 02:08 PM   #15
SuB8HaVeN
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Will do, I usually take pictures of everything but I didn't this time. I'm going to take it back apart eventually to tune it some more, so I'll let you know. Thanks again for the help!
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