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Unread 11-20-2009, 08:43 AM   #1
78CJFIVE
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Carter Confusion

I am confused with the Carter Carbs, and even the chokes..

My CJ is my first carb'ed vehicle.

I am pretty certain that my '78 CJ-5 w/ 258 has a "1 barrel" carb and manifold. Would this be a Carter YF then? I've heard people use the term Carter 1BBL before. Is there even a such thing? If so what is the difference between a YF and 1BBL and 2BBL?

I am also confused with the types of chokes found on carb'ed vehicles. I've heard of mechanical, manual, and electric.

I assume that mine would be considered mechanical since I have no switches or levers, or wires going to the carb. Before I start my Jeep I usually press the pedal to the floor one time, before I turn the key.

I assume a manual choke you can set in the cab? And Electric would be operated automatically or with a switch?

Can anyone help with my Carter Confusion?

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Unread 11-20-2009, 08:52 AM   #2
scooter
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The YF bit would be the model or carb from Carter,the 1BBL, 2BBl is for one or two barrel carb and I think my 78 was a one barrel. The choke on yours should be electric with a single wire to the round black heat coil on the side or hot water with a hose to heat the element laying up next to it. Manual would be a cable running into the cab that you can pull to set it and adjust it as you need to. Mechanical.... IMO there all mechanical as there all made of lots of little parts that move
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Unread 11-20-2009, 09:08 AM   #3
John Strenk
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Actually with the 1 bbl he probably had a choke that was heated by the exhaust gasses through a tube in the exhaust manifold.
A vacuum would draw the air into the tube and be heated up in the exhaust and then drawn into the choke housing. A bi-metallic spring would then expand and open the choke in the carb.

I don't recall seeing any YF on an I6 that had an electric choke. The YFA ( a Carter 1bbl used on the 4 cylinder) had an electric choke though.

Mine was converted over to a mechanical choke when I bought it and it's so simple I've left it like that.
Looking down from the top:
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Unread 11-20-2009, 02:37 PM   #4
78CJFIVE
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What models were used on CJ's then? I've seen people say Carter BBD and Carter YF. Are all 1 barrel Carter Carbs of the YF model then?

I think John is right about the choke, but that leads me to another question..

When you say yours was converted to a mechanical choke, how does the choke operate? Is scooter right about all chokes being mechanical?
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Unread 11-20-2009, 02:46 PM   #5
Mike Romain
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Well all chokes have moving parts so by definition, that is a mechanical unit.

The Carter BBD is a 2 barrel carb or a 2BBL. Some later ones are computerized for air/fuel mix, some aren't. The Carter YF is a one barrel carb or a 1BBL. Again, some later ones are computerized, some aren't.

All were used on various flavors of Jeep.

The Carter YF 1BBL carb has a 'mechanical' choke that uses hot air sucked up from the manifold to heat up a spring which pushes on linkages to open the choke plate.

The Carter BBD 2BBL uses electricity to heat up a bimetal spring to push on the linkages to open the choke.

The 'manual' choke John is showing in his photo is simply an old school/style cable pull choke. You replace the choke cap with a new one that has linkages inside and run a cable into the cab so when you pull on a choke button under the dash, the choke closes. Push on the button and the choke opens or anywhere in between.
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 11-20-2009, 02:53 PM   #6
78CJFIVE
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Alright...

86 that last question. I just found this nifty site:
Jeep / Willys Carburetor Parts - The Carburetor Doctor

Now I am just trying to understand how the choke and float work. I plan on rebuilding my Carter for now. I am pretty sure that I have a YF since mine is a 1 barrel. I'll rebuild it for now until I decide to upgrade my manifold and put a MC2100 on it, or do a junkyard TBI.. I'm thinking the TBI is going to be a little over my head for awhile.. ;-)
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Unread 11-20-2009, 02:57 PM   #7
78CJFIVE
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Thank you Mike, that was helpful.

How do you normally operate the choke if you have the manual variety? Always when starting until it warms up a little? Only pull the choke when it's cold? Or is it different on every application depending on how the carb is tuned?
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Unread 11-20-2009, 03:02 PM   #8
Mike Romain
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Hmm, my 77 engine is a 2BBL Carter BBD, but you could have the 1BBL. To be real sure, just open the air filter and look down inside. It will have one flap at the top (choke plate or butterfly valve) and when you open this flap, it will either have one flap (YF 1BBL) or two flaps down inside. (BBD 2 BBL)

That way you can order the correct carb kit.

The choke has settings on it that you either get from the Haynes CJ manual or with the sheet in the carb kit. You then adjust it to spec.

The float controls the gas coming into the carb by opening or closing a needle in a seat. Again, the float has adjustment specs that are outlined in the kit directions or a manual like the Haynes.
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
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Unread 11-20-2009, 03:05 PM   #9
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 78CJFIVE View Post
Thank you Mike, that was helpful.

How do you normally operate the choke if you have the manual variety? Always when starting until it warms up a little? Only pull the choke when it's cold? Or is it different on every application depending on how the carb is tuned?
No, it is simple. A jeep engine wants the choke closed for a start, period. It then gets opened according to how fast it revs up which is directly related to how hot out it is or how warm the engine already is with a manual choke.

When any choke closes, it pulls on a linkage that sets a fast idle cam. This makes the engine climb up in rpm while on choke. As you close the choke, the fast idle cam drops down to a different step lowering the rpm. It takes a little while to get used to, but not long.
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
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Unread 11-20-2009, 04:15 PM   #10
John Strenk
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If you are going to rebuild it, don't take anything apart until you have the kit and can identify each part. There are usually some springs and ball bearings that fall out and then you have fun figuring out were they go. Fortunately, there are plenty of pictures and guys that have rebuilt them that they can help you.

Sometimes the replacement parts are a little different than what you took out. The best thing is if you still have the little metal tag attached to the carb. This will help in getting the correct kit for your carb.

Searching other post also help identifying problems before you get to them.
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Unread 11-20-2009, 04:51 PM   #11
78CJFIVE
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Will definitely take my time when it comes to the rebuild.. I've been told it's pretty simple really though..

I've heard that it helps to upgrade the float with a brass one? Is this something that usually comes in the carb kit?

Also, looking for any reccomended vendors for the kits? Good instructions would be a plus. ;-)
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Unread 11-20-2009, 05:35 PM   #12
Mike Romain
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I have found that the Haynes CJ manual has the exact same directions for the rebuild as any of the kits i have bought. It is worth having.

My float came brass, but I have an 86 Carter BBD 2 BBL on it. New floats don't come in the kits.
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
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Unread 12-05-2009, 03:51 PM   #13
78CJFIVE
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This is a Carter YF 1BBL?



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Unread 12-05-2009, 08:15 PM   #14
John Strenk
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Yes it is a YF 1 bbl.

Wow, it looks like the heat tube for the choke is intact also.

Don't see a metal tag on it though that will identify the modifications for that year. Maybe it's a replacement carb.
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Unread 12-05-2009, 08:42 PM   #15
78CJFIVE
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Thanks John.

Eventually I would like to replace the manifold and put a MC2100 2BBL on it. But for now this will have to work.

I was thinking about picking up this kit and cleaning it up: ck172 Carburetor Repair Kit - Carter YF

Has anyone ordered from here? Where do you folks normally pick up your carb kits?
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