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Unread 11-14-2009, 12:06 PM   #1
Rocket6R
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Carter BBD Carb.-Choke Problem! PICS

1981 CJ7 (258)

Hey Guys, my choke does not respond when starting the engine. Meaning, the throttle plate (not sure if I'm using proper terminology) does not close during the cold start. I turned over the engine and manually closed it. When I do that the engine idle picks up and the engine no longer stalls. All the linkage moves freely, nothing is stuck.

Also, I noticed an exposed nipple (seen on the picture with a green arrow) sitting on the carb. body. I'm assuming a vacuum line goes there, but I'm not sure where it would hook to. And, there is another little valve (seen on the picture with a red arrow) that is near the chock and I'm not sure what that is for and it is supposed to be hooked up to something.

Any help on this issue would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks, Paul

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Last edited by Rocket6R; 11-14-2009 at 12:06 PM.. Reason: make year model
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Unread 11-14-2009, 12:52 PM   #2
Mike Romain
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Hmm, I don't know what the part is by the red arrow.

The green arrow is pointing at the spark ported nipple for the distributor advance. If you follow the vacuum line from the distributor up across, it will likely go to a diverter valve behind the carb. From this round valve, a line should go to the CTO switch down on the manifold in front of the carb and the other line should go to that green arrow nipple.

When we kill the emissions computer, we hook the distributor directly to the green arrow nipple usually or leave it all be so it switches from manifold vacuum for the timing advance to ported when it warms up.

The black cover next to the red arrow is the choke controller module. It uses 12 volts to heat up a bi-metal spring to open the choke. From the sounds of it you will need to take it off and inspect the bi-metal spring inside. I suspect it is broken or sometimes they just come unconnected. The electric choke module can either be replaced electric or replaced with a manual choke.

it is a bugger to get off, a right angle screwdriver or a screwdriver bit in a socket wrench or even a screwdriver bit in a vise grip to make a right angle driver is the way to go.

Just an FYI for you, your gas filter is in upside down, this makes for long cold starts sometimes. The center line goes to the carb and the top line goes to the return line. If the return is on the bottom like yours, gas can siphon back to the tank when it sits, vapor locking the gas line. This line is to let the vapor blow back to the tank out the top of the filter on a hot shutdown.

it also doesn't look like your gas tank vent is hooked up. This is that charcoal canister thing and it should T fit to the PCV line just behind the carb. Without this added air flow to the PCV valve it won't work right. The PCV controls the engine sludge.

If the canister isn't hooked up, it will saturate with gas eventually and put a vacuum on the gas tank so it will act like it is running out of gas now and then. The canister also has a $2.00 air filter on it's bottom that needs cleaning now and then.
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Unread 11-14-2009, 01:02 PM   #3
scooter
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The black round deal is a heat element and is adjustable. It may have been removed at some point and not set correctly, the spring inside has a "U" kinda bent into it which needs to straddle the choke plate arm where it comes thru the housing. There typically is a notch on top on the black element housing and marks on the pot metal carb body for reference. Typically the center mark on the metal section and the middle mark on the heat element will get you close,you can go richer or leaner from there as needed provided the elements still good. Vac line wise I can say as my 82 is different with a stepper carb.
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Unread 11-14-2009, 01:04 PM   #4
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Dang Mike...you have some good eyes and know your stuff
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Unread 11-14-2009, 03:28 PM   #5
Rocket6R
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Thanks guys in regards to the choke information. I took the choke housing apart and fired the engine up. The metal spring became hot after about a minute or so. So, it appears the choke is working and just needs to be adjusted. The picture shows where I set the choke in relation to the throttle plate (illustrated here by green arrows.). The engine was luke warm at this point. I will allow the engine to cool and then start it up again to make the final choke adjustment.


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Mike, here is a picture of the fuel filter. I not sure what you mean when you say it is up-side-down. Are you referring to the position of the two fuel lines (illustrated here with green and red arrows)? Should the red and green arrow fuel lines be switched?

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Thanks, Paul
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Unread 11-14-2009, 03:37 PM   #6
CJ Chet
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Your red arrow is the fuel line to the carb. Your green arrow is the return line. The return line needs to be positioned at a 12 o'clock position, in relation to the fuel line.
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Unread 11-14-2009, 04:25 PM   #7
Rocket6R
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Chet, thanks for the heads-up on the 12 o'clock position. I just adjusted the fuel filter now to sit at 12 o'clock.

Thanks again, Paul
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Unread 11-14-2009, 04:34 PM   #8
Rocket6R
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"it also doesn't look like your gas tank vent is hooked up. This is that charcoal canister thing and it should T fit to the PCV line just behind the carb. Without this added air flow to the PCV valve it won't work right. The PCV controls the engine sludge."

Mike, can you expand on this? I'm still not sure what you mean. I'm not sure what you mean by the PCV valve behind the carb. I'm assuming when you say behind the carb you meen between the carb and the fire wall, right?
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Unread 11-15-2009, 07:01 AM   #9
Mike Romain
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The PCV line comes from the front top of the valve cover and goes to the back of the carb to plug into manifold vacuum. Behind the carb, there should be a T fitting on this line which then has a hose running to the charcoal canister (gas tank vent) to pick up it's purge signal.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/ch...nister-902298/ Has a good photo of it.

This site explains a lot of parts, a lot you 'don't have with no computer also. Jeep Adventures Under the Hood

The Jeep won't run well without this canister hooked up or if it's open to the air, raw gas fumes can get really bad. Got in our hair and clothes also when mine went bad. I had to replace it.
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89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 11-21-2009, 05:58 PM   #10
Rocket6R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Romain View Post
The PCV line comes from the front top of the valve cover and goes to the back of the carb to plug into manifold vacuum. Behind the carb, there should be a T fitting on this line which then has a hose running to the charcoal canister (gas tank vent) to pick up it's purge signal.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/ch...nister-902298/ Has a good photo of it.

This site explains a lot of parts, a lot you 'don't have with no computer also. Jeep Adventures Under the Hood

The Jeep won't run well without this canister hooked up or if it's open to the air, raw gas fumes can get really bad. Got in our hair and clothes also when mine went bad. I had to replace it.
Mike, I'm very confused! The picture of the canister shows four inlets for lines going into the canister. My canister only has three lines. My PCV valve on the valve cover is "T" shaped. One line goes to the carb and the other goes to the purge canister. I think this "T" PCV valve operates just like you mentioned it should. I have a Jeep two volume shop manual for my CJ7 and it shows that all of my lines are hooked up correctly.

Another question! I'm getting oil into my air box (about a teaspoon for every 100 miles) and it is saturating the air filter. Can I just run the line from the valve cover to the purge canister line that is on the other "T" PCV valve?

Thanks, Paul
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Unread 11-22-2009, 04:56 AM   #11
John Strenk
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No, that would be pulling a vacuum on both sides of the valve cover. One side needs a vacuum and the other side need to have filtered air coming into the crankcase. There may be a problem with the PCV plumbing allowing fumes to travel up the fresh air opening into your air cleaner housing.
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Unread 11-22-2009, 06:00 AM   #12
Mike Romain
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As John mentions, it needs flow. You are getting a little blowby. This can happen when the canister isn't plumbed right or is failing.

You say your canister only has '3' lines? If so it may not be the right kind of canister for your PCV system which could be the cause for the oil blow.

If it is a Jeep 3 tube canister, then it doesn't hook up to the PCV at all, it's purge is open all the time and the line is supposed to run to a nipple on the bottom of the air filter snout so it sees a ported vacuum signal all the time. It may be a replacement canister from another vehicle though which 'could' still be plumbed to the PCV and it could be worn out.

To find out, tell me what the lines look like. Do you have a small round valve on the top of the canister with a small vacuum line going from there to the CTO valve? Does it look anything like this canister: Evaporation Canister

If it looks like that canister, but with only 3 lines, it is a replacement for a different vehicle. If it doesn't have that round valve on it, it is an old style Jeep one that ins't plumbed right causing your blowby.
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Unread 11-22-2009, 07:46 AM   #13
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Mike, YOU ROCK DUDE!!!
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Unread 11-22-2009, 09:15 AM   #14
Rocket6R
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Mike, here is a picture of my set up! I followed the link that you posted to the purge canister and it is the same as mine. However, I appear to be missing a fourth tube. The nipple on the canister for the tube appears to be broken off or missing (no where to attach a tube to it). Does this other missing tube hook up directly behind that carb (nearest to fire wall)? Meaning, I think this is the "T" branch off that you were refering to on a prior post on this thread.

I color coded my tubes in the picture.

red: going to my "T" shaped PCV valve.
blue: it appears to be going to my fuel tank.
green: going to the passenger side of the carb. two fittings near the choke "T" up into this tube.

If I do need a new purge canister and filter for it where can I purchase one?

MIKE, I REALLY WANT TO SAY THAT I GREATLY APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR HELP. YOU ARE THE BEST! IF YOU EVER PUT OUT A TIP JAR I'LL BE THE FIRST TO PUT MONEY IN IT.

Thanks again, Paul

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Unread 11-22-2009, 09:36 AM   #15
Mike Romain
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Ok, the missing tube goes to the front of the cap to open the valve to purge the charcoal. The rest of your plumbing sounds correct.

This missing tube comes from the CTO valve and the carb ported vacuum line. That is the one with the green arrow in the first photo. It can have a T fitting so it feeds both the distributor advance and the CTO valve. The CTO valve only allows the vacuum signal to pass when the engine heats up. There also is a ported nipple off the front drivers side corner of the BBD that could drop over to the CTO valve to turn the canister on. The EGR valve is also plumbed through this same CTO valve and the air filter thermostat.

These canisters are Expensive, I would sure try to fix that one. I would take it off and while off, replace the $2.00 air filter on it's bottom which was a bear to do the first time on mine I needed a hammer and chisel to dig it out it was so dirty. The new ones just tuck in and out.

Then when it is off, you will see the broken off stub for the small vacuum line on the front side of that cap unit. I would find a small steel or copper tubing and drill the broken stub out enough so the copper tube just fits in, then I would glue it in with JB Weld to make a new nipple for the line.

In this thread is a link to a '3' line canister that will work. You just have to T together the gas tank line and the carb float bowl vent: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cj...ml#post5732729
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89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
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