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Unread 07-13-2013, 01:36 PM   #16
WindKnot
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I have a Holley four barrel 470 CFM Truck avenger carburetor. It is undoubtedly the WRONG carburetor for you if you still have the factory intake manifold.

Mine is a custom performance intake manifold and even then the carburetor I have is at the maximum end of what is acceptable for even that manifold. What I'm doing is not a good example for you to follow, ESPECIALLY since you've stated about it being a daily driver.

If you can't make the existing one work satisfactorily, the MC 2100 is a good choice. Holley DOES make a 350CFM 2 barrel carb, but it's set up for street and I'm not sure it's a good choice for a Jeep. Lots of racers like it though.

I like Holleys because they're what I know. Others like Edelbrocks and others like Webers. A lot of this is personal choice.

Whatever way you go however, isn't going to be just opening up a box and bolting it on. You and I live way above seal level and need to compensate for it. Whichever one you choose, I'd consult with them about your altitude and how to adjust for it. If they're not willing to talk with you, perhaps they don't need to be your vendor of choice?

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Unread 07-13-2013, 01:40 PM   #17
climberman
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I forgot you have the 4 barrel I will go with the 2100 or the weber 38 I will start looking into both of them.

Sure do appreciate all the help

Thanks

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Unread 07-13-2013, 01:52 PM   #18
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The 2425 is the Carter BBD.

This may help: http://www.ehow.com/how_7995045_adju...arburetor.html

This may help too: http://www.jeeptech.com/engine/carter.html

Whichever way you choose, LEARN it! If you don't you'll be throwing parts on it and making adjustments based on suspicion. that's an expensive path to follow.
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Unread 07-13-2013, 07:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindKnot
The 2425 is the Carter BBD.

This may help: http://www.ehow.com/how_7995045_adju...arburetor.html

This may help too: http://www.jeeptech.com/engine/carter.html

Whichever way you choose, LEARN it! If you don't you'll be throwing parts on it and making adjustments based on suspicion. that's an expensive path to follow.
+1

I once you understand how to adjust a carb they are all the same. Only difference is the carbs that have metering rods VS carbs with power valves. And if you have any clue what I'm referring to you are already on your way.

Take a picture of your choke assembly.

If you have a junkyard near you, I'd grab a carb off a early to mid 80's Wagoneer or J10 or J20 truck. They are non feedback and will preform well once gone over. And their already designed and factory set for the 258. Just grab it, clean it, rebuild it, slap it on and drive it.

You do have to pay certain attention to where the little check balls came from. And a few other thing. There are plenty here that will help know matter what carb you choose.
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Unread 07-13-2013, 08:11 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by 86cj74.2L View Post
+1

I once you understand how to adjust a carb they are all the same. Only difference is the carbs that have metering rods VS carbs with power valves. And if you have any clue what I'm referring to you are already on your way.
.
Each carb has particular quirks so it is worth spending time researching and gathering experience from those who have gone before. They all require the same basic skills to take apart and put back together.

Your son is using a mainly stock non-emissions mid 70s 258ci at altitude to run around in with an HEI ignition. The HEI is fine but is not a major performance mod by itself, though it does allow larger spark plug gaps.

If it is a DD then economy will be more important than the ability to accommodate future mods or outright torque and power?

If it was a new carb I would look at the Weber 32/36. It is a progressive 2 barrel, so one opens first. This is not the largest carb you will ever fit to a Jeep but the smaller venturis give good vacuum signal and it is responsive low down. It has enough capacity at the top end for a stock 258.

If you were going to further modify or it was not a DD the Weber38 is a synchronous 2 barrel with larger venturis. It is very similair to the 32/36 apart from being synchronous and it is a bit larger than you need but can handle most mild to mid engine mods.

There are other Webers, I had a Weber 40DCNF synchronous 2 barrel from a Ferrerai Daytona, but on a Ferarri the choke circuit is seperate from the bank of carbs. It was hard to start and unresponsive low down from being oversized.

Genuine Webers are made in Spain and have Weber cast in, Redline are the US distributor. Do not buy any other Weber, they are either Solexes rebadged or Chinese knock-offs.

The current Webers from Spain are well made and you buy precision and tunability. There are quite a few tricks to them but this forum has some excellent long long threads on getting the most out of them, at sea level and altitude. Support is very good for the 32/36 and 38 on a 258ci, just ask the guys on here and they will tell you Redline are helpful.

You will need adapters to get it on to the manifold and fit the cables but Redline can supply them. If you have the original TAC cleaner it is much better to retain it with an adapter.

There are plenty of other choices for new carbs. New Carter BBDs are available, Solex, Holley etc. Each seems to have its adherents.

Secondhand junk yard choices are more limited but many see the Motorcraft 2100 series as the easiest to install and get to work, with adapters. Seems very cheap but it is still an old carb. BBDs are available from scrappies but pre computer ones will be over 30 years old.

The other option is to rebuild the BBD again and setting it up properly. It was a popular carb in its day and suits the 258ci. However it is 34 years old and they do wear. If yours has play in the throttle shaft it needs bushing. The clogged idle tubes are a pain but fixable.

I kept mine purring for 5 years until the accelerator pump shaft fell apart and I burred the screw on the metering rods lever. I then received a bonus so the Weber 38DGMS came into our home, it is much loved.

The only other thing I would add is that carb performance is affected by vacuum leaks. Before junking the carb have a real close look at the hoses and gaskets. Worn, cracked and loose fitting vaccum hoses can have you churning on the key for ages to start.
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Unread 07-13-2013, 08:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BagusJeep View Post
If it was a new carb I would look at the Weber 32/36. It is a progressive 2 barrel, so one opens first. This is not the largest carb you will ever fit to a Jeep but the smaller venturis give good vacuum signal and it is responsive low down. It has enough capacity at the top end for a stock 258.
This is where so many people (and I'm not suggesting you, Bagus) get it wrong, especially when you make the mistake of using a cfm calculator. When it comes to the 32/36, it's not about capacity at the top end: it's all about idle volume. It's simply maxed out. There's just no other way to say it. It's too small for a 258.


Shawn
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Unread 07-13-2013, 09:00 PM   #22
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^^^ Crap, I guess I'll start looking into the 38, I got the 32/36 going pretty darn good. But if the 38 can make it even better, maybe I should do that. I would do the Motocraft, but I feel more acquainted to the weber because they are terrible to adjust and ive had it apart a ton

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Unread 07-14-2013, 12:28 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by swatson454 View Post
This is where so many people (and I'm not suggesting you, Bagus) get it wrong, especially when you make the mistake of using a cfm calculator. When it comes to the 32/36, it's not about capacity at the top end: it's all about idle volume. It's simply maxed out. There's just no other way to say it. It's too small for a 258.


Shawn
Suggest me by all means Shawn!!!

It is on the small side but many members report good results with improved mileage and for many that is very important to keep the CJ as a viable DD.

Top end volume is misleading on a 258 just because it is rarely extended in normal use!!!!!

As I only pay $2 a gallon fuel costs are not high on my list. I have the Weber 38DGMS which should be good for performance. The only thing that holds me back from exploiting the full potental is the odd noise above 2500rpm!!! The noise of Bagusjeep falling part?

My volume requirement at top end at 2500rpm is not a lot.
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Unread 07-14-2013, 07:53 AM   #24
EngChase
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I purchased one of these. Basically bolted it on and started it up.

http://www.allcarbs.com/detail.php?p...=10&stt=0&gb=2

It has worked well for a couple of years now. They have others available. Look for a drop down tab on the left for
OBSOLETE-"NEW OLD STOCK" CARBURETORS and look at the Carter page(s).
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Unread 07-14-2013, 08:44 AM   #25
swatson454
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I would say the two most-popular carbs are the Weber 38 and the Motorcraft 2100. The Weber 32/36 is popular as well but can be a bear to set up well because it's really too small for a 258. It can be done but it'll be at the ragged edge of what it's capable of.

Hope it helps.


Shawn
Quote:
Originally Posted by BagusJeep View Post
Suggest me by all means Shawn!!!

It is on the small side but many members report good results with improved mileage and for many that is very important to keep the CJ as a viable DD.

Top end volume is misleading on a 258 just because it is rarely extended in normal use!!!!!

As I only pay $2 a gallon fuel costs are not high on my list. I have the Weber 38DGMS which should be good for performance. The only thing that holds me back from exploiting the full potental is the odd noise above 2500rpm!!! The noise of Bagusjeep falling part?

My volume requirement at top end at 2500rpm is not a lot.
Now now. Read what I said again. I never said it was impossible, I said it can be a bear to set up. Just count how many 32/36 vs 38 help threads there are.

I also said it has nothing to do with top-end capacity. It has everything to do with how much it can deliver at idle. That's where it's maxed out. That's why guys have to run such a large idle jet, live with 2 inches of vacuum at the spark port, often resort to opening the secondary throttle plate and live with a 500 rpm idle speed.

Some guys don't mind that kind of stuff and have been happy with that carb. It's not, however, a carb that I would recommend on anything other than maybe a 1600 cc Volkswagen.


Shawn
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Unread 07-17-2013, 06:02 PM   #26
uptillnow
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Originally Posted by swatson454 View Post
This is where so many people (and I'm not suggesting you, Bagus) get it wrong, especially when you make the mistake of using a cfm calculator. When it comes to the 32/36, it's not about capacity at the top end: it's all about idle volume. It's simply maxed out. There's just no other way to say it. It's too small for a 258.


Shawn
+1
I do love these conversations...

I look at the size of the Carter BBD that was put on many of these JEEP vehicles by the manufacture as "O.E.".
The MC2100 & MC2150, The Weber 38 DGES are all "virtually" the same size carburetor. I am only comparing the size of these carburetors and concluding that the engineers had a clue of what this low RPM, stump pulling "tractor" engine needed and these 3 carburetors are desirable replacements.

Now.... The Weber 32/36 DGEV sells something like 5 to 1 over the Weber 38-DGES. WHY?
I believe there is plenty of mis-information, or information that is construed as desirable to make a choice, and the guy behind the counter just wants to make a sale to keep his job. Just like here, right now.

The 38-DGES is the standard replacement for the Carter BBD carburetor and the 32/36 DGEV is an ECONOMY carburetor much smaller than the original equipment carburetor Carter BBD. Many people can get the 32/36DGEV to work with some tedious tuning and attention. Many say they run rich... That is for another time and venue.
But it is nothing like the size or performance of the 38-DGES, BBD or the MC2100. Plain and simple. It (the 32/36DGEV) is toooo small for the Jeep. In My Humble Opinion.

If you have a stock engine, the 38-DGES will out perform the BBD or the MC2100. If you have a modified engine or headers, or punched out cat, cam, larger tires, lots of weight, the 38-DGES is the ONLY choice. The 32/36DGEV won't handle any modifications and can barley handle a stock 4.2Ltr/258 Jeep engine.

Lots of familiar names on this post, we get to say all of this some more.
There are many very knowledgeable people on this forum.

Good Luck with your purchase.

UPTILLNOW
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Unread 07-17-2013, 06:11 PM   #27
John Strenk
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Is this a record? 26 post ad no one mentioned FI?
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Unread 07-17-2013, 06:19 PM   #28
CoryA
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Is this a record? 26 post ad no one mentioned FI?
Awesome!
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Unread 07-17-2013, 07:20 PM   #29
WindKnot
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Originally Posted by uptillnow View Post
+1
I do love these conversations...

If you have a stock engine, the 38-DGES will out perform the BBD or the MC2100. If you have a modified engine or headers, or punched out cat, cam, larger tires, lots of weight, the 38-DGES is the ONLY choice. The 32/36DGEV won't handle any modifications and can barley handle a stock 4.2Ltr/258 Jeep engine.
Of the Webers, I agree. But HARDLY the ONLY choice in the world of carburetors.
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Unread 07-18-2013, 09:58 AM   #30
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Of the Webers, I agree. But HARDLY the ONLY choice in the world of carburetors.
WindKnot,
Yes you are correct....
The three carburetors that are of "virtually" the same size as the BBD and MC2100 the 38DGES and with modifications to the engine is the ONLY choice of this size.

Thanks for your clarification about other carburetor options that work well on the 258 Jeep engine, this helps allot....

Use Fuel Injection
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