Cam Help for Ashley's 304 - Page 7 - JeepForum.com

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post #91 of 204 Old 08-23-2013, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
Rollbar
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Ordering the Cam etc next week-Ashley went ahead and had the machine shop check the block out. Everything is fine and we are going to let him assemble the short block.

Ashley is almost done w/the heads and then the assy/install.

Will post more pics on the build thread.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/as...4-auto-1441950

Thanks for helping us,
Jim

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post #92 of 204 Old 08-23-2013, 08:58 PM Thread Starter
Rollbar
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Question, since we can't use the Roller Rockers and installing the stock Rockers-we don't have any valve adjustment correct?

Thanks,
Jim
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post #93 of 204 Old 08-27-2013, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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Comp Cams recommended this package: (but we would like to get the double roller timing set from Summit/Edelbrock is the mfg.
http://www.compperformancegroupstore...Category_Code=

Also-they recommended this push rod http://www.compperformancegroupstore...Category_Code=
But my push rod length is 7.773 & this one is 7.950
He also said to get a Hesco or Mopar case hardened push rod for our application/stock 304. BUT, if we go that route, which push rod do we get ? The 7.773 or the 7.950 ??

Little confused.

Does the new cam require a different length push rod for the duration/height of the lobe ?

We told him we will use stock rockers (of which we would like or buy some good new stock ones-not cheap China metal) but not sure where to buy them ?

Thanks again,
Jim

P.S. Motor is almost done.
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post #94 of 204 Old 08-27-2013, 11:46 AM
swatson454
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Originally Posted by Rollbar View Post
Does the new cam require a different length push rod for the duration/height of the lobe ?
Yeppers. You can only make the lobes "so" tall or they won't pass through the journals. Cam companies will make the lobe a little taller but they'll also reduce the base circle height.

That will make the lifter rise a little more but it will also come down further than it did with the stock cam. The additional travel downward is what makes you need longer pushrods.

Ahhh, the woes of non-adjustable rockers. Now where's Matt? He just went though all of this "fun" last summer



Shawn

Live in a way that those who know you but don't know God will come to know God because they know you.
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post #95 of 204 Old 08-27-2013, 11:53 AM
Matt1981CJ7
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I highly recommend measuring the preload on the lifters, with the adjustable tool sold by Comp Cams, before ordering the pushrods. Deck heights, type of cam and lifters, type of rockers, and type of head gaskets all affect what length pushrod to use.

I'm not sure how these companies sell all-inclusive "kits" without knowing all of these variables.

Matt
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post #96 of 204 Old 08-27-2013, 12:05 PM
swatson454
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I highly recommend measuring the preload on the lifters, with the adjustable tool sold by Comp Cams, before ordering the pushrods. Deck heights, type of cam and lifters, type of rockers, and type of head gaskets all affect what length pushrod to use.

I'm not sure how these companies sell all-inclusive "kits" without knowing all of these variables.

Matt
Matt,

I've given some thought to the issue since your build and I want to run this idear past you.

Could you install the adjustable pushrod and torque the rocker arm down, thread the pushrod out until it makes contact with the rocker and lifter (zero lash), remove the rocker, pull the adjustable pushrod out and add your desired pre-load to the pushrod by unscrewing it that amount (whatever equaled zero lash + say .030). Then either measure the total length with calipers or simply send the pushrod to Comp and tell them "this length"?


Shawn

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post #97 of 204 Old 08-27-2013, 12:19 PM
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Shawn,

That's how I'd approach finding the correct length.

Unfortunately, pushrods are advertised in both actual tip-to-tip length, and a "theoretical" length which is something different, but I don't recall how they come up with that measurement. What I found is it's a crapshoot when you buy based on the advertised length, because they don't tell you which measurement they used.

After the second set I ordered that were the incorrect length, I ended up taking one of my old pushrods to a local wholesale supplier and physically compared them until I found the correct length. It was actually one of the most frustrating aspects of my build.

Matt
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post #98 of 204 Old 08-27-2013, 12:29 PM
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Yep yep! I sent my pushrod tool back to Comp and told them that was the length I needed. I think pushrods should just be recognized as something that's going to have to be measured with the tool and ordered as a custom set when you're doing a full build.


Shawn

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post #99 of 204 Old 08-27-2013, 03:50 PM
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The EPA has done a fantastic job of turning our oil into garbage. Even the industrial blends like Rotella are already on the chopping block and aren't the oils they were a couple of years ago.

I'd highly recommend running Brad Penn 10W-30 for break-in and either their 15W40 or 20W50, depending on your summer heat and oil pressure, for the final or Joe Gibbs BR, now "Driven" oils for break-in and HR-1 for the final.

I know it's more expensive but not nearly as bad as a wiped-out cam. Think of it as cheap insurance.

Wix, Napa Gold and K&N oil filters are the way to go, as well. What ever you do, don't break the cam in on one of those orange things. You should be able to cross-reference the K&N number over to a Mobil 1 and save a couple of bucks. They're the same filter.

It's always a good idea to mic the bearings and journals to make sure nothings out of whack but I'm just as guilty of a cam swap without even looking at the cam bearings as the next guy


Shawn

right on, this guy know his stuff, and I like him



how you been sir? been awhile since I bugged you

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post #100 of 204 Old 08-27-2013, 04:34 PM
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right on, this guy know his stuff, and I like him

how you been sir? been awhile since I bugged you
I'm not sure if I should scratch my watch or wind my butt but I'm hangin' in there. No worse for wear, as they say.


Shawn

Live in a way that those who know you but don't know God will come to know God because they know you.
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post #101 of 204 Old 08-27-2013, 05:10 PM
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I'm not sure if I should scratch my watch or wind my butt but I'm hangin' in there. No worse for wear, as they say.


Shawn


My oil supplier gave me 6-7 cases of Brad Penn Oil. I love it, what's not to love about an oil named Brad and it's green

1977 CJ7, 360 AMC with HEI, TH400 quadratrac, dana30, AMC20, SOA, 35" M/T MTZ
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post #102 of 204 Old 08-28-2013, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by swatson454 View Post
Matt,

I've given some thought to the issue since your build and I want to run this idear past you.

Could you install the adjustable pushrod and torque the rocker arm down, thread the pushrod out until it makes contact with the rocker and lifter (zero lash), remove the rocker, pull the adjustable pushrod out and add your desired pre-load to the pushrod by unscrewing it that amount (whatever equaled zero lash + say .030). Then either measure the total length with calipers or simply send the pushrod to Comp and tell them "this length"?


Shawn
My head hurts !
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post #103 of 204 Old 08-28-2013, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
Shawn,

That's how I'd approach finding the correct length.

Unfortunately, pushrods are advertised in both actual tip-to-tip length, and a "theoretical" length which is something different, but I don't recall how they come up with that measurement. What I found is it's a crapshoot when you buy based on the advertised length, because they don't tell you which measurement they used.

After the second set I ordered that were the incorrect length, I ended up taking one of my old pushrods to a local wholesale supplier and physically compared them until I found the correct length. It was actually one of the most frustrating aspects of my build.

Matt
Might be easier going w/a stock cam

This is way beyond me or her almost need an engineering degree for this one

Got a link for a tool ? - looking at the Comp Cam link you posted.
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post #104 of 204 Old 08-28-2013, 09:36 AM
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http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-Adju...58609/10002/-1

Find close to our size and that should work.

They say money can't buy happiness but it can buy Jeep parts...and Jeep parts make me really Happy.
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post #105 of 204 Old 08-28-2013, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by roboto65 View Post
http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-Adju...58609/10002/-1

Find close to our size and that should work.
Thank you -

Now (haven't read article yet from Comp Cams), does each cyl (or just one to check), have to be on TDC and both valves closed for OALength ?

Maybe a U-Tube video might help.

Thanks again guys - might as well do it right the first time cause 2k-2500 rpm upon start will surly wipe out a cam if everything is not right-am I correct?

Thanks again everyone for all the help in helping me get her Jeep back on the road.

Jim
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