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CA Smog FAILED GRRRRRRR!

6K views 125 replies 20 participants last post by  Matt1981CJ7 
#1 ·
Everything PASSED but the "FUEL EVAPORATION CONTROLS FUNCTIONAL".

HC (PPM) MEAS: 296 (15 mph), 287 (25 mph)
CO (%) MEAS: 2.56 (15 mph), 2.74 (25 mph)


Now what? GROSS POLLUTER

The DMV forced me to a STAR Certified place of their own and I never had issues. I could not have it repaired or adjusted. Messed up!

Any idea what the numbers are relating t? Maybe I can tweak some thing before I go back? :mad:
 
#3 ·
I am supposed to go back tomorrow and leave the Jeep. NIGHTMARE!

It's $99 just to do the NEW (EVAP) smoke test on the System. Then what ever has to be fixed APPLIES!
I am so angry and stressed out over this. I am buried in medical bills lately and this was the last thing I needed.
Not sure what I can do. So, if he decides to DROP the tank, he has to charge me. (just had bcd medical attention)
Can't even think My head feels like its about to explode.

I know those canisters are old but come on DMV. I am at a loss for words. FIRST TIME w/ NEW Gov't station.

Do you know specifically what lines? Maybe I will take it Thursday and TRY to swap some but he still needs to charge for the SMOKE test.
 
#6 ·
On the bright side, failing the EVAP test should be an easier fix than failing the actual Smog test.

Good luck, and be sure to thank your legislators for these ridiculous laws.

Matt
Yep. it passed EVERYTHING but that test. The legislators can kiss my ***. LOL
It has been nothing but costs increases since Arnold made they dreadful change.
The feeling in the air is bad; meaning, the election has many upset. You can see it their demeanor.

So, when I dropped the gas tank recently, the rubber seal at sending unit did not seat well; it smelled like gas and leaked a tiny bit. I tightened and it stopped it but I wonder if thats the culprit. When he hooked up the EVAP line, it smelled like gas. So, if I can buy some time, a couple days, maybe I can fix it? I'll deal with the back pain later. Replacing the rubber lines I can do myself as well.

It has to be registered by the 18th so do I have that much time left? ... or the end of the month????
 
#10 ·
Move away from that totalitarian regime and get out of California.

Well, something no one has said yet: Replace the charcoal inside the canister, it does wear out. I'll bet you could get away with aquarium charcoal.

Makanak
 
#11 ·
I hear you Mak.

Living in the south was like "A Stop at Willoughby", LOL.
How I miss being back there. It was good living and full of good ole honesty.

I have wanted to check the charcoal but I thought those cans were ridiculously difficult to clean.
I will try but so afraid I don't ruin it.
 
#17 ·
258,

You can pay your registration fees to avoid penalties. All you will need to do is provide the SMOG report once you pass, it will get sent to the DMV by the test station, to get your year sticker and registration completed. The other option is put it in Non-Op status.

I sent you an email.
 
#18 ·
Guys, check this write-up out. I think this is our ANSWER!

With some proper paint color coding at the canister top for identifying the vacuum lines, it would be a breeze to retro-fit this.
I will be checking my purge diaphragm tomorrow. I can fix many things and I am sure I can tackle this.

The damn smog stuff and not passing really put a lump in my throat. I baby this vehicle and it flat out sucks that we go through this. We should be rewarded for being articulate, lol.
On a POSITIVE, it is forcing me to replace all my vacuum lines and check the canister. So, if you going through this, follow through with a good checking of your canister and vacuum lines.

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=106051
 
#21 ·
LG, that is exactly what I told my smog tech. He said it would surely fail the test because of that. He has to do the "smoke" test and drop the tank ???.
I know for a FACT that when I just replaced my sending unit, I had a slight leak at the "O" ring seal from over-tightening. I am not going to pay anyone to drop my tank.
I will do it myself and re-seat that seal. I remember I tightened it too hard with a wooden dowel. I was told you have to tighten like it were an oil filter?

Also, I took the EVAP canister out. (Pretty dirty underneath)

I checked every line, they look new and I did a pressure test to the tank but I think I need someone present to listen on the other end.
Line #3 has a little metal orifice inside about 1" inside the canister side of that rubber line. I can't seem to squeeze it out to swap hoses.
Is that suppose to be inside the line or in the port opening? I wonder if this is sold separately? Its small.

(see photos)

Can I drive the Jeep at all? The EVAP is out, so is the windshield wiper reservoir. It's my daily driver so I was wondering if I could use it to go get parts.
If not, I can walk. I probably need the exercise after the back issues. I'm just not sure what lines are PRIORITY?

I may dremel the bottom of the canister very carefully and redo things inside.
I think I can reseal it with special heat glue than find one of those angled metal ring brackets you screw to tighten; like a radiator hose clamp.
I have a new round filter; have had for a while so we shall see. My main concern are which lines to I REALLY need to check and replace? What order?

The bottom of the carburetor at corner has a rubber plug that is cracking also. Where do you get those little rubber caps?
 

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#28 ·
IF, you drop the tank. Put a NEW 'O' ring in, as the sender clamp nut/ring only tightens down so far.
AGAIN-Ck the lines to your roll over valve also.
Also check the fuel tank fill lines to be sure they are tight.
When you drop this tank. Block ALL ports etc and test to 5-6psi. Get out the soapy water spray bottle and spray everydangthing, look'n for bubbles.
LG
 
#37 ·
Dropped the tank AGAIN and the "O" ring was pinched. There was gas drip residue around the sending unit so it was leaking; not bad but it showed.
It was much bigger than the old one I pulled out which I still had in a zip-lock baggie. I ended up re-using the old one since it wasn't cracked but soaked it in oil for a while.
It slid right into that grove at tank top. Interesting? The newer one wasn't even close. I did not "over-tighten" like I did the first time.

I checked the lines and they were tight, no cracks. The gas cap was toast; rubber all cracked and brittle. So, that's NEW as well.
Also, replaced vacuum and fuel lines in engine compartment that were needed. It's been running rich, adjusted it but it goes back on Monday for RE-testing.
I'm guessing if there was a leak it was previously adjusted to compensate for that.

Trying not to stress out because I know what these test can cost if things go bad. :thumbsup:
 
#30 ·
AGREE ^^^

I read an article somewhere that stated these older cars put out less pollution than many newer cars simply based on their functions. I wish I remember where I read that. It was a individual that was speaking in terms of gov't misleading the population to fill their own pockets. What blows my mind is that my recent test results out-did the previous 3 testings because that's how well maintained my Jeep is. So, I am NOT surprised that this new EVAP test FAILED me. You know, maybe a PASS to keep me productive with a 60 day notice letter to CHECK the emissions lines and bring it back. It makes more sense than to STOP someone cold turkey from being mobile and productive. It's a useless sense of control that leaves people questionable about their intentions. Just my thoughts!
 
#34 ·
258 I agree with your statement, I have 3 cj 's in CA which test better than my 02 Tahoe and 02 Grand. Put an obd ll CAT on them and barely any pollutants register. My 86 cj smog is due by end of year we'll see how that goes.
 
#35 ·
DO THIS PRIOR:
I would start checking the vacuum lines right now. Just trace each one and replace if they look tired.
My gas cap rubber seal was gone so check that too.
Drive your vehicle for at least 20 minutes prior to arriving at the smog station.
The use of fuel additives HELP!
Make sure your vehicle's tire pressures are even and correct. It allows the vehicle to be driven with greater stability and accuracy during the smog exam.
Change the oil. IT IS IMPORTANT! Contaminated oils are high in Hydrocarbons (HC).
Clean the battery cables and the major grounding contacts.
Avoid rainy days. Tires are wet and tend to slip on the dynamometer.

Good Luck!
 
#39 ·
"[Does my vehicle qualify for a smog exemption?
Smog inspections are required unless your vehicle is:

Gasoline powered 1975 year model or older
Diesel powered 1997 year model and older or with a Gross Vehicle Weight rating (GVWR) of more than 14,000 lbs
Electric
Natural gas powered with a GVWR rating of more than 14,000 lbs.
Motorcycle]"

I wonder how long CalifornIA is going to have 1975 as a cutoff date!!!!
 
#40 ·
"[Does my vehicle qualify for a smog exemption?
Smog inspections are required unless your vehicle is:

Gasoline powered 1975 year model or older
Diesel powered 1997 year model and older or with a Gross Vehicle Weight rating (GVWR) of more than 14,000 lbs
Electric
Natural gas powered with a GVWR rating of more than 14,000
bs.
Motorcycle]"

I wonder how long CalifornIA is going to have 1975 as a cutoff date!!!!
Bottom line: CA would like to rid themselves of these vehicles.
If they force a FAIL, and repairs are expensive, logic plays out and most folks would take the trade in and get a newer car. ($$$$$)
BUT some of us like SIMPLICITY; like a straight scotch/whiskey/bourbon. Not necessarily a tropical fancy drink.
Oddly, the prior mentioned work better than the fancier ones. >:)

FYI: I wouldn't trade my GI JOE for a lego, would you? :shhh:
 
#41 ·
Been at the CA Star station for an hour. Have a 258 with the mopar injection kit ant they are confused. Passed the sniffer but they have no clue on visual. Showed them the carb exempt #, we surfed the internet , they have called numerous friends an still scratching their heads.

They just failed it because they could not find a part number on my catalytic converter.

Bunch of BS
 
#45 ·
Been at the CA Star station for an hour. Have a 258 with the mopar injection kit ant they are confused. Passed the sniffer but they have no clue on visual. Showed them the carb exempt #, we surfed the internet , they have called numerous friends an still scratching their heads.

They just failed it because they could not find a part number on my catalytic converter.

Bunch of BS
Appeal it-Older 'cats' never had a serial number. I had to do this a few years ago.
They may also think you're a 'bait-car' put out by CARB.
LG
 
#43 ·
Just failed my brand new gas cap. Purchased on way to smog.

Unbelievable.
Wow, this is what I was talking about. If you DON'T know or trust the tech, they can really screw you with THEIR lack of knowledge.
Get them to FINISH and EXPLAIN what EXACTLY failed. Then, take it home (I think you have 10 days) and repair it yourself.
You can take it back home to research other related parts that can contribute to that fail.

My cap was bad but the tech never installed it like I had asked. It sat in the box on the seat. Go figure, right?
Also, I knew my "o" seal at gas tank top was pinched. I reset that. It is now sealed tight.
Changed all the bad vacuum/fuel lines and it goes back Monday for the Re-Test.
Registration fees PAID but keeping fingers CROSSED that all goes well! Sorry to hear that!
 
#47 ·
FYI, the "APPEAL" will land you at the Inspection Station. This is like vehicle court. The DMV district manager will meet the state techs there to watch them re-test..
Basically he will be looking for errors from the previous results and MORE. So cover your tracks to prove your case. If you have the receipt for your catalytic converter, TAKE IT.

If you recently replaced ANY emissions parts, take those receipts. Get a new gas cap and/or use the old receipt. (make sure its the exact same cap)
Anything that can be related to parts for smog prior to this FAILED test with prove errors from that station. Those station machines need to be calibrated EVERY three days by law.
So, that will be questioned if you come up with better numbers. Do the basics too. Tire pressure, fresh oil, good grounds, plugs, etc.

I went through this once and actually got a written letter of apology from DMV's District manager after I proved FRAUD from the testing place.
I had EVERY receipt for EVERY part, I marked my parts with a center punch and took pictures. I didn't and still don't trust those STATE shop techs.
They repaired everything the smog tech over-charged because I had PROOF via those receipts. This was about 14 years ago and it had never FAIL since.

My recent FAIL I will look at as a BLESSING. I have never touched the fuel/vacuum lines and the FAIL has forced me to change a lot of those.
It will be interesting to see what they come up with now but the issue is, many shops won't let YOU fix it yourself. That's where the draw-back is.
This is why I was telling you to find out everything that might have caused the FAIL so you can take it home, research and do all the repairs.
Then take it to "APPEALS" but you should apply ASAP and start the repairs so they don't look NEW at time of re-test.

* check for ANY markings on parts that the shop may have made to prove it's the same part. You never know.

~

I take mine back Monday and I have had a stressful weekend thinking about it. I know repairs will be costly. My disability hinders a speedy repair for me.
I feel all this take's the fun out of all the hard work we put into these Jeeps to keep them restored.
 
#49 ·
You can do your own repairs. It really depends on the Testing Shop. Many times they won't re-test BECAUSE they want the $ for doing the repairs. You simply have to ask before or possibly lose the initial $ for the test. I had a FREE re-test and explained to my tech that it had to be done in 10 days. Well, he couldn't do it in 10 days so I wonder what he will say tomorrow. It is 2 days past. He didn't want me touching anything but I repaired and replaced things that might possibly be related to the FAIL. So, if he says I need XXXXX repaired and I already did it, I'll know where I stand.
 
#50 ·
Need ADVICE Badly!!!!

So, you are aware I just FAILED my CA smog test because of the EVAP test they added. I was supposed to re-test today but the guy tells me that he can't do it today because he is too busy? He was the one that told me to bring it in on MONDAY.

I have replaced everything that I felt was related (cap, canister filter, some fuel lines, gas tank "o" ring, tightened the vent/fuel hoses and a few other things) but he STILL wants to DROP the tank and remove all that stuff to check it out. I just redid it. He was telling me it is going cost but wouldn't give me a estimated cost. WTF??? He also told me I need to leave it for a couple days. This is my Daily Driver!

Does ANYONE know what will happen if I do the re-test and it FAILS again. I am not sure if it is will risky to simply go ahead and do this. I am thinking it MAY pass this time with all that stuff being done. Will it create MORE problems for me if it does FAIL again or will I simply be told I have to test it again at a later date?

Wow, I feel sick with this CA crap! The Jeep runs so good too. Better than it has in the last several months anyway. Quick and responsive.

Anyone know a RELIABLE smog guy in the central Los Angeles area that I can trust, lol? I mean like a Jeep bro that understands what these Jeeps simply need adjustment wise? I can't even think straight because I was planning on going out of town for this holiday and now dealing with THIS CRAP!!! Wow. :frown2:

*** HELP ME UNDERSTAND THESE RESULTS ***
 

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#56 ·
Anyone know a RELIABLE smog guy in the central Los Angeles area that I can trust, lol? I mean like a Jeep bro that understands what these Jeeps simply need adjustment wise?
Not sure how Jeep specific these guys are, but they seem to get good Yelp reviews...

https://www.yelp.com/biz/a-and-d-automotive-repair-south-gate?start=40

https://www.yelp.com/biz/morales-automotive-repair-service-bell-gardens

If nothing else, they may be able to suggest someplace that is more Jeep-centric.
 
#53 ·
Your original post said you passed the sniffer test, but failed the EVAP test. The entire thread has been about fixing the EVAP problem. Now, we find out you failed both, and you've changed your original post. It's difficult to give advice, when the problems and questions keep changing. Just saying.

As Ken's link indicates, there's multiple causes for high HC and CO numbers. Compound that with the fact you are dealing with 30-year old computer and emissions systems, and I'm afraid this goes beyond your diagnosis/correction capabilities.

At this point, I'd start looking for a alternative DD, then take whatever time is necessary to find a competent Jeep mechanic in your area to help you out.

Matt
 
#54 ·
Your original post said you passed the sniffer test, but failed the EVAP test. The entire thread has been about fixing the EVAP problem. Now, we find out you failed both, and you've changed your original post. It's difficult to give advice, when the problems and questions keep changing. Just saying.

As Ken's link indicates, there's multiple causes for high HC and CO numbers. Compound that with the fact you are dealing with 30-year old computer and emissions systems, and I'm afraid this goes beyond your diagnosis/correction capabilities.

At this point, I'd start looking for a alternative DD, then take whatever time is necessary to find a competent Jeep mechanic in your area to help you out.

Matt
Thanks for the heads up and sorry about the mix-up in the thread. I was going by what the tech stated but only really started to understand what it all really meant. I am aware I need a RELIABLE/TRUSTWORTHY mechanic but I am simply trying to replace what I can before getting charged by someone else to do it. I will continue my search for someone. Kind Regards
 
#55 ·
1975.. that means i can move back to Cali and register my old 71 z28 that they for decades hassled me about... From court case that a cop tried to pin it as a race car on street... back in the 80s that car had ruined a few sniff testers.. if i recall at idle one guy said it was making enough pollution for 15 cars, back then would be 150 today.. you bet with a racing cam and 454 XCH block at 12.75 CR running on 110. lol fun days back then. getting to pass it. my last few years in cal the car could not be registered even with a large bribe. moved to AZ in 90 and was on the road in seconds. no test, no smog....

Funnest thing was watching the smog guys eyes water as that thing thumped away in the shop.
 
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