BUILD THREAD: Project "Ghetto Fabulous" - Page 50 - JeepForum.com
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post #736 of 800 Old 03-31-2014, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
motiv8ya
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I put a new starter in it today and it turned over quickly and a lot stronger. I drove it around for about 20 minutes and pulled back in the driveway, turned it off and then tried to restart=no luck. The starter kicks in but can't turn it. Atleast I was smart enough to drive home before I turned it off this time. Guess I'll have to park it on hills at my destination so I can bump start it.

Also, The engine stumbled when accelerating in third, could that be a timing issue?

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post #737 of 800 Old 03-31-2014, 07:21 PM
Havasu Living
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Does the starter year match the bellhouse year?
Is the exhaust close to the starter?
Does the starter work after sitting for several hours?

I warpped my starter with this.

80 CJ7 5.0 Dual Exhaust, T176, D300, D30 w/ true trac, AMC 20 w/ ARB 4.56 gears, York OBA, Hydroboost
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post #738 of 800 Old 04-01-2014, 05:04 AM Thread Starter
motiv8ya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Havasu Living
Does the starter year match the bellhouse year?
Is the exhaust close to the starter?
Does the starter work after sitting for several hours?

I warpped my starter with this.
Good question, I don't know what the year of the bellhousing is, only that it's a t-176 bellhousing I bought off of CL along with the trans and xfercase. The starter I just put in it is for a 80' CJ with a 304/4speed application. It actually sounded/turned strong on the cold engine. The mean green starter I had in there originally couldn't even turn the engine and the other one would turn very slowly.

My exhaust isn't any closer to the starter than the stock setup. I'm using stock exhaust manifolds so they connect in the stock location.

It's weird
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post #739 of 800 Old 04-01-2014, 08:37 AM
Havasu Living
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When I did my V8 302 swap I failed to heed the warning of using the correct year starter for the hellhouse being used and smoked the starter. But mine was a mix match of ford to chevy. Sounds like your stuff is all setup for the correct year and engine.

Let's discuss this.

So, you have tried at least 3 starters with the same results after driving for 20 or so minutes. You shut the engine off and when you try to restart you can hear the starter engage but won't turnover the engine or is there no sound at all?

The starter works if the engine sits for several hours. Does that mean the engine fires and idles again?

You say the positive cable to the starter is new. Do you have a dedicated negative cable from the starter to the battery? Or do you have a neg cable from the engine block to the battery. If not try this, after running it for 20 minutes shut the enigne off, hook up a jumper cable from the body of the starter to the neg side of the battery and see if the engine fires up.

How old is the battery?

Did you try to jump start the engine with another vehicle?

Could you try to hand crank the engine via the harmonic blancer nut the next time it's hot and won't restart?

Good luck

80 CJ7 5.0 Dual Exhaust, T176, D300, D30 w/ true trac, AMC 20 w/ ARB 4.56 gears, York OBA, Hydroboost
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post #740 of 800 Old 04-01-2014, 11:59 AM Thread Starter
motiv8ya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Havasu Living
When I did my V8 302 swap I failed to heed the warning of using the correct year starter for the hellhouse being used and smoked the starter. But mine was a mix match of ford to chevy. Sounds like your stuff is all setup for the correct year and engine.

Let's discuss this.

So, you have tried at least 3 starters with the same results after driving for 20 or so minutes. You shut the engine off and when you try to restart you can hear the starter engage but won't turnover the engine or is there no sound at all?

The starter works if the engine sits for several hours. Does that mean the engine fires and idles again?

You say the positive cable to the starter is new. Do you have a dedicated negative cable from the starter to the battery? Or do you have a neg cable from the engine block to the battery. If not try this, after running it for 20 minutes shut the enigne off, hook up a jumper cable from the body of the starter to the neg side of the battery and see if the engine fires up.

How old is the battery?

Did you try to jump start the engine with another vehicle?

Could you try to hand crank the engine via the harmonic blancer nut the next time it's hot and won't restart?

Good luck
After it runs and heats up, the starter dies engage and tries to turn but can't.

The engine can be turned by 'hand' from the crank when its hot, its tight but can be done.

The engine fires up after it cools down completely.

The starter has the same engage/but not turn over result on the hot engine while jump starting with another vehicle.

There is no negative lead from the starter to the battery, it grounds through the case. My engine does not have a ground wire directly to the - battery terminal. It has ground straps from the block to the frame / frame to - battery terminal. That probably explains the melted terminal on my ground bar on my right front fender.

I will have to try the jumper cable to starter / battery ground test you mentioned. Thank you.
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post #741 of 800 Old 04-01-2014, 12:23 PM
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Looks like it's a heat related thing. Either something in the engine\clutch area is overheating and expanding to the point of locking up the mechanical side. Or.....I'm going with the starter is overheating.

For $20 go to o'reilly get the DEI or equal insulated thermal sheild and warp it around the starter. I did this as a precaution, my headers are extermly close to the starter. You could buy an infared gun and measure the temperature of the starter when it doesn't start. You could pull the starter after 20 minutes and support it with wire if possible and turn the ignition switch or disconnect the postive cable and lay it on the floor, positive jumper cable to the starter post and other side to the positive pos on the battery, negative cable to the body of the starter, stand on the starter and touch the negative side to the battery. If the starter spins but really weak it's heat related. Don't foreget the safety glasses.

Get a light and examine the exhaust around the starter.

Good luck

80 CJ7 5.0 Dual Exhaust, T176, D300, D30 w/ true trac, AMC 20 w/ ARB 4.56 gears, York OBA, Hydroboost
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post #742 of 800 Old 04-01-2014, 12:56 PM
Tigerjeep79
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Man, you're running into some hard luck. I like the heat shield idea (I need one for my cat - sometimes the floor gets so hot I can feel it through my boots). I remember a Jeephammer diagram where he had the negative battery cable going directly to the starter, then from the starter to the block. He swears by that setup, and I think he was using 1/0 cables. I wonder if that would help.

It's probably too late, but I have a crimper tool for making big cables if you need to borrow it. We're in the same neighborhood.
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post #743 of 800 Old 04-01-2014, 04:57 PM Thread Starter
motiv8ya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Havasu Living
Looks like it's a heat related thing. Either something in the engine\clutch area is overheating and expanding to the point of locking up the mechanical side. Or.....I'm going with the starter is overheating.

For $20 go to o'reilly get the DEI or equal insulated thermal sheild and warp it around the starter. I did this as a precaution, my headers are extermly close to the starter. You could buy an infared gun and measure the temperature of the starter when it doesn't start. You could pull the starter after 20 minutes and support it with wire if possible and turn the ignition switch or disconnect the postive cable and lay it on the floor, positive jumper cable to the starter post and other side to the positive pos on the battery, negative cable to the body of the starter, stand on the starter and touch the negative side to the battery. If the starter spins but really weak it's heat related. Don't foreget the safety glasses.

Get a light and examine the exhaust around the starter.

Good luck
I'll stop and grab that heat wrap this week and report back. I have an IR thermometer so I can check the before and after starter temps. Thanks for the info.
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post #744 of 800 Old 04-01-2014, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
motiv8ya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerjeep79
Man, you're running into some hard luck. I like the heat shield idea (I need one for my cat - sometimes the floor gets so hot I can feel it through my boots). I remember a Jeephammer diagram where he had the negative battery cable going directly to the starter, then from the starter to the block. He swears by that setup, and I think he was using 1/0 cables. I wonder if that would help.

It's probably too late, but I have a crimper tool for making big cables if you need to borrow it. We're in the same neighborhood.
There is definitely some heat coming through the floor. I don't have the trans tunnel cover on it yet and can feel it blowing through. I will pick up an extra ground cable and install it from the starter mounting bolt to the - battery to see if that helps.

I haven't seen you driving in a while. I just went wheeling at Devils Peak this weekend with the club but I rode passenger in a buddies 13' JK.
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post #745 of 800 Old 04-01-2014, 08:49 PM
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I haven't seen you driving in a while. I just went wheeling at Devils Peak this weekend with the club but I rode passenger in a buddies 13' JK.[/QUOTE]

Yea, it's been a while. Been really busy with work (finally). Last Sunday I took it out for a spin and a big side-wind blew my hat off and I had to go chase it. It's really hard to look cool when you're doing that.
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post #746 of 800 Old 04-01-2014, 09:43 PM
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I ran jeephammers recommended neg cable to a starter mounting bolt which also acts as the engine/trans ground...well one of them. Has worked really well thus far, starter spins fast as heck. Also a good idea to run a dedicated ground to both heads while you're in there, so they're not grounding through the bolts
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post #747 of 800 Old 04-02-2014, 02:37 PM
83vert
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What's the timing set at?

I am in deep
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/how-did-happen-rebuild-1113470/
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post #748 of 800 Old 04-02-2014, 04:43 PM
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Heat soak???

I am in deep
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/how-did-happen-rebuild-1113470/
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post #749 of 800 Old 04-02-2014, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
motiv8ya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 83vert
what's the timing set at?
10*
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post #750 of 800 Old 04-02-2014, 10:34 PM Thread Starter
motiv8ya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 83vert
Heat soak???
That's what I'm guessing. I haven't been able to pickup the insulation wrap for the starter yet but I will report back once I install and test it.

The Jeep got rained on today so I may put my soft top from the 79' on it and park the 79' in the garage for awhile.
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