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Unread 03-08-2009, 03:43 PM   #1
Face
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2005 LJ Wrangler 
 
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Broken Clutch or Broken Tranmission?

Here's the story. My '85 CJ-7 with a T4 has been giving me issues with 1st gear. Originally it was sometimes hard to get into 1st but would work fine for 2-4 and Reverse. If I would shift to 3rd, 2nd, then 1st it would slip in. It felt like the trans needed to rotate a little bit to let 1st "open up".

I lived with that for awhile then came across another problem the other day. The Jeep was driving fine then, all of a sudden, I couldn't get into or out of any gear with the engine running. It's like the clutch wasn't working. If I put the Jeep in gear then started it up (engine would lug when starting b/c the trans was spinning, too), I could drive it around but only in that particular gear. It was impossible to shift to another gear even if the clutch was in. Also, it didn't seem to make a difference if I had the clutch pedal in or not, the Jeep acted the same either way. If I was moving or stopping the Jeep would continue to run as if the clutch was operating normally even if I didn't have my foot on the pedal. At a complete stop I would have to hold the brake to keep the Jeep from moving, though.

My original thought was that the clutch or throwout bearing was the culprit and the trans was fine. After pulling the trans and transfer case away from the bell housing yesterday it appeared as though the clutch was working fine. When pressing in the pedal the throwout bearing would push in the clutch fingers just as it should. That lead me to believe the problem might be with the transmission.

Could the transmission syncs have been going out and now all gave up at the same time? Could there be other problems with the clutch that I'm not seeing without pulling the bell housing off and taking the clutch completely apart? What other tests can I do? Currently the Jeep is in pieces in the garage and I need to get it back on the road so I can sell it.

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Unread 03-08-2009, 08:09 PM   #2
rkbell
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I would definately suspect the clutch assembly. Hard shifting is one thing but if pushing in the clutch pedal has no affect on disengaging the transmission from the engine then more than likely the clutch or it's adjustment is where your problem lies. Have you tried adjusting the linkage first? Also, just looking at the pressure plate and TOB through the bellhousing probably won't tell you if the complete assembly is good or bad. Your driven (clutch) disc could be shot and you can't really see that without removing the bellhousing.

When I rebuilt my transmission, I went ahead and replaced all the clutch components while it was out because I had no idea how old they were. Clutch was working fine but I figured it was good insurance and easy since the trans was already out and the $140 or so I spent on the complete assembly was definately easier to swallow than having to pull the trans again 6 months down the road.
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Last edited by rkbell; 03-08-2009 at 08:52 PM..
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Unread 03-09-2009, 08:26 AM   #3
Face
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The linkage appears to be working properly. I did adjust it a number of months back to get better pedal feel. Since then there have been no real problems until now. The baffeling part is that everything was working then, all of a sudden, nothing worked. I've never seen this happen before but that doesn't mean it hasn't.

Also, the clutch is only about a year and a half old. The good news is that it's under warranty so if the problem is with the clutch assembly, parts are covered. What could the issue be with the clutch assembly to cause this problem? I guess the next step is to pull the bell housing off and get the clutch out of there.
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Unread 03-09-2009, 10:18 AM   #4
rkbell
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I could be wrong but it just seems to me that the clutch disc is not releasing from the flywheel. Something is causing your transmission to remain engaged to the engine and the clutch assembly is the only thing I can think of.
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Unread 03-09-2009, 10:24 AM   #5
80cj
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I had a problem with a 76 CJ-5 with T-150 similar to what you describe. Turns out the clutch pilot bushing was shot. When the problem started, the clutch would make a funny groaning-squealing sound. As the problem progressed, shifting into gear became more difficult.
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Unread 03-09-2009, 10:55 AM   #6
Face
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkbell View Post
I could be wrong but it just seems to me that the clutch disc is not releasing from the flywheel. Something is causing your transmission to remain engaged to the engine and the clutch assembly is the only thing I can think of.
I was thinking the same thing that the clutch was not disengaging from the flywheel but it just seemed strange that it gave up all at once. Typically I'm used to gradual problems with clutches. If it is the clutch assembly that's good for me b/c it's under warranty.

More suggestions are still welcome and I'll try to keep everyone updated on the end result. One of these days when I'm not super busy I'll pull the clutch out and have a real look at it.
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Unread 03-09-2009, 11:47 AM   #7
mcurcio1989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Face View Post
Here's the story. My '85 CJ-7 with a T4 has been giving me issues with 1st gear. Originally it was sometimes hard to get into 1st but would work fine for 2-4 and Reverse. If I would shift to 3rd, 2nd, then 1st it would slip in. It felt like the trans needed to rotate a little bit to let 1st "open up".

I lived with that for awhile then came across another problem the other day. The Jeep was driving fine then, all of a sudden, I couldn't get into or out of any gear with the engine running. It's like the clutch wasn't working. If I put the Jeep in gear then started it up (engine would lug when starting b/c the trans was spinning, too), I could drive it around but only in that particular gear. It was impossible to shift to another gear even if the clutch was in. Also, it didn't seem to make a difference if I had the clutch pedal in or not, the Jeep acted the same either way. If I was moving or stopping the Jeep would continue to run as if the clutch was operating normally even if I didn't have my foot on the pedal. At a complete stop I would have to hold the brake to keep the Jeep from moving, though.

My original thought was that the clutch or throwout bearing was the culprit and the trans was fine. After pulling the trans and transfer case away from the bell housing yesterday it appeared as though the clutch was working fine. When pressing in the pedal the throwout bearing would push in the clutch fingers just as it should. That lead me to believe the problem might be with the transmission.

Could the transmission syncs have been going out and now all gave up at the same time? Could there be other problems with the clutch that I'm not seeing without pulling the bell housing off and taking the clutch completely apart? What other tests can I do? Currently the Jeep is in pieces in the garage and I need to get it back on the road so I can sell it.
I had the same exact problem and it turned out i had overfilled the transmission by doing it the freezing cold winter. What an idiot im am. It didin't become a problem till summer. Anyways i replaced the oil after working it in it shifted like a champ. Syncros just weren moving right. It could be clutch or transmission. I would guess the clutch is out of adjustment and you also have syncros going bad or forks. Start by getting the clutch adjusted right and changing the oil see what that does and then go from there. Before you mess with syncros please please please just replace your shift fork/s that is a likely culprit and way easier to do than a rebuild
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