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Unread 01-20-2013, 01:14 PM   #1
pman
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Brakes-no pedal...I'm bleeding to death...FIXED

It looks like the CJ5 is about to defeat me on this one. Two weekends ago I took the kids for a spin around town. We made a couple of stops, and on the way back the front brakes started squealing LOUD. She started pulling to one side just a touch, so I knew I had a sticking caliper as well.

The next weekend I pull the offending passenger front caliper, replace it with a new one, bleed the system...no pedal. I bled it several times, and the pedal kept going to the floor. I've been a little suspect of the Master Cylinder (Manual Brakes) leaking, so this morning I bought a new MC, bench bled it and installed. Bled all four corners-starting at passenger rear, driver rear, passenger front, driver front. Still no pedal. Bled 'em again; still no pedal. Finally, I pulled the tires and checked the drum wheel cylinders, all brake lines, etc. for leaking; all is good. I've driven backwards, forwards, thinking my drums needed to readjust, but at that point I'm grasping at straws.

I think I'm going to throw in the <shop> towel, put my pride in my back pocket and haul this sucker to my local mechanic. What could I possibly be missing? I'm seeing no air bubbles. BTW, after several sessions of this crap, I replaced the bleed screws with "speed bleeders". That makes it more convenient at least!

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Unread 01-20-2013, 01:17 PM   #2
Ripper3494
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try gravity bleeding it, just open all the bleeders and let them go for like half an hour 45 min maybe and just keep checking the resivour to make sure its full. i can never bleed it correctly with the pedal but this works every time for me.
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Unread 01-20-2013, 01:25 PM   #3
davegt
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What shape are your soft lines in??? If they are old they tend to swell when press on the brake whick can give u no peddle
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Unread 01-20-2013, 01:29 PM   #4
pman
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Thanks Ripper and Dave. Dave-they are in pretty decent shape, but I'll give them a closer inspection! Ripper, I've heard of this "gravity bleeding", I think I may try that. I'm obviously getting nowhere with my usual method (I've bled brakes on the YJ and Wagon numerous times over the years-including an MC replacement in the FSJ-with no problems. This truly has me scratching my head.

Oh, I meant to add that the new caliper is correct for the application-the bleeder screw is "above" the brake line. I've seen where guys have gotten the wrong caliper and the bleeder was below the line and made it impossible to bleed.
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Unread 01-20-2013, 01:31 PM   #5
BlkCJ7Laredo
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Do the proportioning valves on these need to be "reset"? Still you probably have air in it somewhere.
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Unread 01-20-2013, 01:49 PM   #6
metaljeep
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Did you replace the other caliper? Had the same problem with my brother in laws cj7.The driver side caliper was sticking and seemed like it had pressure but didn't. You should get a really goiod stream coming out when you bleed it. We changed both calipers and the brakes are fine good pedal.
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Unread 01-20-2013, 03:08 PM   #7
pman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlkCJ7Laredo View Post
Do the proportioning valves on these need to be "reset"? Still you probably have air in it somewhere.
I know the TSM calls for it to be reset on the Wagoneer, and it probably holds true for the CJ, but most people i know (including me) have never fooled with the prop valve. This may need to be considered, although I think the resetting has more to do with front vs rear pressure?

Metaljeep- no, the drivers side caliper has not been changed. For 20 bucks, it probably wouldn't hurt. This Jeep just "sat" in the rain, sun, cold and heat before I cleaned it up. That caliper is fairly rough looking. I might give that a shot, too.
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Unread 01-20-2013, 03:31 PM   #8
dg6772
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How are you bleeding? Are you pumping and pumping then opening bleeders? If so this can cause the bubbles of air to break into many,thereby creating a large headache. Push once to floor; while holding there open bleeder valve and repeat.
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Unread 01-20-2013, 03:48 PM   #9
pman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dg6772 View Post
Push once to floor; while holding there open bleeder valve and repeat.
^^This. Yes, did the pump up method years ago and the clear tubing looked like Alka Seltzer was in it!

Wife got sick of being the pedal pusher , so I retrofitted the whole shooting match with speed bleeders this afternoon. Much easier now...well, easy even though I still have no brakes.
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Unread 01-20-2013, 03:53 PM   #10
hp_lovecraft
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
Wife got sick of being the pedal pusher ,.
Mine would give me grief... "its took hard to get in.... the seat is uncomfortable.... smells like oil and exhaust... " etc.

I eventually got used to using a long window scraper I have under the seat. Its just long enough to hold the pedal down.

But years ago I discovered the gravity-method here, and I'll never pump/bleed again. No need to mess with the proportioning valve either.

Just open the valves, and wait. I'll usually use the time to change the oil, plugs, etc. I ALWAYS have projects "in the pipe" that I can finish. Just keep an eye on the master, and have plenty of fluid on hand. You get the added benefit of flushing out all the bad fluid.
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Unread 01-20-2013, 04:35 PM   #11
pman
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I'm going to try the gravity method tonight, for sure! And I held back on what i really wanted to say about the wife "helper". Keep in mind I built this Jeep for "her", so she got an earful from me yesterday. I love the woman, but wish she'd get some grease under her nails every now and then!
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Unread 01-20-2013, 07:48 PM   #12
dg6772
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Been there done that! LOL! Good luck with that!
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Unread 01-20-2013, 09:32 PM   #13
molsenice
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fought a MC on a YJ for about 2 weeks. replaced rotors, calipers, and rubber lines - still soft pedal and bubbles in the mc. You may wish to try adjusting the push rod going to the mc - these things never seam to be an exact fit for length, but once I got the push rod right, the air in the mc went away and the brakes came right to perfect.
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Unread 01-21-2013, 05:57 AM   #14
pman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by molsenice View Post
You may wish to try adjusting the push rod going to the mc
I'm adding this to my list. Not sure how I'd adjust the push rod though? It was identical in length to the MC I pulled out, and it didn't appear to be adjustable? My plan is to scoot home from work at lunch, replace the drivers side caliper, and open the bleeders to gravity bleed. Btw, I'm wondering if gravity bleeding will work with the speed bleeders? Will that check valve provide resistance and keep it from bleeding via gravity?
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Unread 01-21-2013, 08:17 AM   #15
Truck633
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Just my .02

pull the drums, adjust brake shoes out until the drum just slides on (a little friction) make sure you have no fluid at the wheel cylinder. Pump and bleed, then add fluid into the master cylinder before doing the other side. I did this two or three times before messing with the calipers on the front (they are not usually the culprit unless they are inverted, and you seem to have addressed that)
I fought with my soggy pedal, and my neighbor told me this had worked for him. I finally got the drums where they would lock, and the rest fell into place!!!

Tom
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