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Unread 12-11-2002, 01:21 AM   #1
TG CJ7
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Body Work Questions

I just bought a YJ tub for my Jeep. This is my second swap, the first was done to my brothers jeep. When we painted his we just scuffed the paint, shot primer on it, then enamel based paint. We used about a gallon of paint for the whole thing.
His Jeep looks great but Iím worried that the paint didnít adhere as well as it could have. I dropped a wrench on the fender and it chipped the paint.
Iím painting this one black, and I know black shows every blemish. I want it to look original and last a long time. So far my plan is to strip the body down to bare metal and prime with epoxy primer. I'll then fill any dents or imperfections with bondo. Then shoot a finish primer, then paint.
I've done most of these steps before so I'm pretty confident in my ability to do it right. I want to get really good adhesion between the layers of primer and paint. Is this the best course of action?
Brock Iíll try to get some pictures of what Iíve done so far up this weekend.
Thanks
Tim

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Unread 12-11-2002, 03:31 PM   #2
jadams68
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When I had mine painted, I was bringing parts from the sandblaster shop to the paint shop. The sandblaster guys primed it with stuff called "etching primer".

It was light green and had a gritty feel to it. I imagine this is what the paint adhered to.

The paintjob on my jeep is factory showroom quality.
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Unread 12-12-2002, 01:18 PM   #3
JeeperTim
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Re: Body Work Questions

Quote:
Originally posted by TG CJ7
I just bought a YJ tub for my Jeep. This is my second swap, the first was done to my brothers jeep. When we painted his we just scuffed the paint, shot primer on it, then enamel based paint. We used about a gallon of paint for the whole thing.
His Jeep looks great but Iím worried that the paint didnít adhere as well as it could have. I dropped a wrench on the fender and it chipped the paint.
Iím painting this one black, and I know black shows every blemish. I want it to look original and last a long time. So far my plan is to strip the body down to bare metal and prime with epoxy primer. I'll then fill any dents or imperfections with bondo. Then shoot a finish primer, then paint.
I've done most of these steps before so I'm pretty confident in my ability to do it right. I want to get really good adhesion between the layers of primer and paint. Is this the best course of action?
Brock Iíll try to get some pictures of what Iíve done so far up this weekend.
Thanks
Tim
You have the steps right. Take it to bare metal, epoxy prime (etch is ok also, but not as good overall as epoxy), then do the body filler work, primer surfacer, guide coat & block it down "flat", one more coat of surfacer, wet sand and then paint.

I'd definitely suggest BC/CC rather than enamel though. Enamel is old technology. It's more difficult to touch up and just doesn't look as good as a high quality urethane. Use one paint system, follow the P-sheets and you'll do fine. HTH
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Unread 12-14-2002, 10:21 AM   #4
TG CJ7
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Quote:
guide coat & block it down "flat", one more coat of surfacer, wet sand and then paint.
I'm not sure what you mean by block it down flat?
Also this morning I just brought home my new CJ. Its a 79 renegade edition. I'm thinking about buying the decals for it, someone told me to shoot the base coat, then apply the decals. After the decals are applied then clear coat over the whole thing. Is that corret?
Thanks for the info.
Tim.
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Unread 12-14-2002, 02:28 PM   #5
MudLover
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Yeah, that's the way to go. I talked to the guys in the paint shop for the Indian Motorcycle Company this summer. They hooked me up with some of their gas tank decals to put on the doors of my CJ, God their bikes are sweet, and they told me to put them on then spray down a clear coat. That's how they get them to stick to the gas tanks and not have the rain a stuff rip them off. So to answer your question, put the decals on, then do the clear coat.
Good Luck,
Marc
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Unread 12-15-2002, 08:14 PM   #6
JIM79CJ7
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Re: Re: Body Work Questions

Quote:
Originally posted by JeeperTim


You have the steps right. Take it to bare metal, epoxy prime (etch is ok also, but not as good overall as epoxy), then do the body filler work, primer surfacer, guide coat & block it down "flat", one more coat of surfacer, wet sand and then paint.

I'd definitely suggest BC/CC rather than enamel though. Enamel is old technology. It's more difficult to touch up and just doesn't look as good as a high quality urethane. Use one paint system, follow the P-sheets and you'll do fine. HTH
Good suggestions ! But on a jeep I would not use a base coat /clear coat system . Not as durable and repairs are harder to match , I reccomend Imron paint it is damn near indestructable . this is what is used on big rigs and fleet equipment . not as easy to shoot but worth it in the long run .

JUST MY $ .02 , JIM :{>
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Unread 12-16-2002, 10:33 AM   #7
JeeperTim
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Re: Re: Re: Body Work Questions

Quote:
Originally posted by JIM79CJ7


Good suggestions ! But on a jeep I would not use a base coat /clear coat system . Not as durable and repairs are harder to match , I reccomend Imron paint it is damn near indestructable . this is what is used on big rigs and fleet equipment . not as easy to shoot but worth it in the long run .

JUST MY $ .02 , JIM :{>

BC/CC is the most durable finish you can have. It's also pretty easy to match repairs, especially if a reactive reducer was used in the initial paint job.

Imron is hard as a rock, but its faults are that it chips too easily, doesn't offer as many color possibilities, and is downright deadly and near impossible for the DIYer to spray out a decent finish. Same with all polyurethane paints really....

When Imron came out in the 70's, it was used mostly on the chassis of fleet vehicles because of its supposed toughness, and then people started using it on restorations until they realized that it chipped easily. Imron had its day, but in this day and age, acrylic urethane is the way to go.
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Unread 12-16-2002, 10:42 AM   #8
JeeperTim
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Quote:
Originally posted by TG CJ7


I'm not sure what you mean by block it down flat?
Also this morning I just brought home my new CJ. Its a 79 renegade edition. I'm thinking about buying the decals for it, someone told me to shoot the base coat, then apply the decals. After the decals are applied then clear coat over the whole thing. Is that corret?
Thanks for the info.
Tim.
"Block it down "flat"" means you block sand the primer/surfacer until all imperfections are gone. Imperfections would be minor high and low spots, orange peel, dust nibs, insects, etc. Using a guide coat tells you when all imperfections have been removed and you have a "flat" surface.

Your decal question depends on the decals and the clear you're using. Many decals cannot simply be cleared over. As for putting the decals on the basecoat, that's a no-no. If anything, you lay down the base, lay down the clear, suff the clear in the areas where you want the decals, apply the decals and then clear over them. BUT, you have to know what the decal material is. You have to know that the clear won't simply just lift right off the decal.
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Unread 12-16-2002, 10:56 AM   #9
JIM79CJ7
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Body Work Questions

Quote:
Originally posted by JeeperTim



BC/CC is the most durable finish you can have. It's also pretty easy to match repairs, especially if a reactive reducer was used in the initial paint job.

Imron is hard as a rock, but its faults are that it chips too easily, doesn't offer as many color possibilities, and is downright deadly and near impossible for the DIYer to spray out a decent finish. Same with all polyurethane paints really....

When Imron came out in the 70's, it was used mostly on the chassis of fleet vehicles because of its supposed toughness, and then people started using it on restorations until they realized that it chipped easily. Imron had its day, but in this day and age, acrylic urethane is the way to go.
Bring your jeep , come on over and we'll throw rocks at my paint job and we'll throw rocks at yours too and see whos paint job holds up ? If you seen or experianced "chipping" it is prolly due to bad prepwork ? Granted repairs and initial laydown of the paintjob are not easy it is a more durable finish .

I could be wrong but I have been doing this for 19 years .

JIM :{>
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originally posted by Mikeythefireman :
Mr. Bill, you're a Jacka$$! or should I say 'drack you're a Jacka$$ I was looking for a straight answer there.

Custom Stuff--- [URL=http://www.JCfabanddesign.com]JC Fab & Design[/URL]
ORANGE JEEP CLUB
MEMBER # 1

1979 CJ7 / 304 /T 150 /HUGGER ORANGE PAINT JOB/ Lots of cool stuff
2003 Inca Gold Rubicon , <------ Sissy jeep :)
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Unread 12-16-2002, 11:10 AM   #10
JeeperTim
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Body Work Questions

Quote:
Originally posted by JIM79CJ7


Bring your jeep , come on over and we'll throw rocks at my paint job and we'll throw rocks at yours too and see whos paint job holds up ? If you seen or experianced "chipping" it is prolly due to bad prepwork ? Granted repairs and initial laydown of the paintjob are not easy it is a more durable finish .

I could be wrong but I have been doing this for 19 years .

JIM :{>
No need to get hostile Jim. Throwing rocks would obviously cause both paint jobs to chip.... Imron is old technology, like Enamel.... Imron's extreme hardness and rigidity *makes* it more prone to chipping. If you don't know that after 19 years in the collision field, you "prolly" don't know much.

19 years in the business makes you the all-knowing expert, right? I've seen painters with 3 times my "experience" with 3 times less talent and knowledge so let's not even go there. I've also seen those same guys still swear by Laquer, Enamel.... and yes, Imron.... old technology for old bodymen.. Besides, Imron is Dupont and who the heck would want to use Dupont, right?! Nuff said
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Unread 12-16-2002, 11:22 AM   #11
JIM79CJ7
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Not getting Hostile . Only stating my personal prefferance on a jeep . Don't get me wrong , i am not starting an argument here .

19 years in the business does by no means make me an expert either , only an educated opinion .

As far as my rock throwing comment I was only using that as an example of my faith in My paintjob .

Don't Like Dupont ? I have shot Ditzler , PPG, Transtar , Dupont , Even Dulux ( ok so I'm old ) And countless others But in the last 10 years It has been mostly dupont . Not by choice ..... My company is under contract with dupont .

Not starting a flame war here only stating my opinion..... that is why people come to forums to get suggestions from many sources ie; Your opinion or even mine .........

JIM :{>
__________________
originally posted by Mikeythefireman :
Mr. Bill, you're a Jacka$$! or should I say 'drack you're a Jacka$$ I was looking for a straight answer there.

Custom Stuff--- [URL=http://www.JCfabanddesign.com]JC Fab & Design[/URL]
ORANGE JEEP CLUB
MEMBER # 1

1979 CJ7 / 304 /T 150 /HUGGER ORANGE PAINT JOB/ Lots of cool stuff
2003 Inca Gold Rubicon , <------ Sissy jeep :)
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Unread 12-16-2002, 11:40 AM   #12
JeeperTim
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Quote:
Originally posted by JIM79CJ7
Not getting Hostile . Only stating my personal prefferance on a jeep . Don't get me wrong , i am not starting an argument here .

19 years in the business does by no means make me an expert either , only an educated opinion .

As far as my rock throwing comment I was only using that as an example of my faith in My paintjob .

Don't Like Dupont ? I have shot Ditzler , PPG, Transtar , Dupont , Even Dulux ( ok so I'm old ) And countless others But in the last 10 years It has been mostly dupont . Not by choice ..... My company is under contract with dupont .

Not starting a flame war here only stating my opinion..... that is why people come to forums to get suggestions from many sources ie; Your opinion or even mine .........

JIM :{>
Ok, sorry about that, Jim. I took the "rock throwing" thing the wrong way. Thought you were getting hostile. No hard feelings.

It's not that I don't like Dupont, I just prefer PPG. You know how that is.... Most car guys will defend Ford or Chevy or Mopar to the death and same thing with painters swearing by their brand and line.

Just a misunderstanding I guess. We're all entitled to our opinions. Sorry I got hostile there.

Jeeper Tim
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Unread 12-16-2002, 02:26 PM   #13
JIM79CJ7
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No problem Tim !

Just your typical Bodyman VS Painter thing going on . Have a great holiday !

TG Cj7 ,
No matter which way you go Good luck ! And remember the more time spent preparing for your paintjob the better the end result will be .

PS. Check out the pics in my Sig below . some paint job stuff in there

JIM :{>
__________________
originally posted by Mikeythefireman :
Mr. Bill, you're a Jacka$$! or should I say 'drack you're a Jacka$$ I was looking for a straight answer there.

Custom Stuff--- [URL=http://www.JCfabanddesign.com]JC Fab & Design[/URL]
ORANGE JEEP CLUB
MEMBER # 1

1979 CJ7 / 304 /T 150 /HUGGER ORANGE PAINT JOB/ Lots of cool stuff
2003 Inca Gold Rubicon , <------ Sissy jeep :)
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