Bob’s “What the heck was I thinking” build… ’80 CJ-5 - Page 4 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep CJ Forum > Bob’s “What the heck was I thinking” build… ’80 CJ-5

Brand New! Quadratec LED Headlights!FS: Wrangler RGB Multicolor Fog Light LEDs: Awesome EffectFS: 2007-2013 Jeep Wrangler "HALO" Angel Eye Kit

Reply
Unread 12-09-2011, 04:46 PM   #46
commadore64
Jeep = bleeding money
 
commadore64's Avatar
1980 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: , Georgia
Posts: 571
Boy, am I aggravated this evening! Last weekend, I totally re-did my T-18 inspection cover gasket as it began to leak when we set the tranny in the frame a little while back. Since then, every evening after work, I would walk by and run my fingers under the cover and it has been dry… until tonight. I ran my fingers under the cover and they came up oily. So, got to redo the gasket again! (see post #21) I thought I did everything right this time… cut a new gasket, used high tack on the tin side and RTV on the tranny side, finger tightened the bolts until the RTV cured then torque to about 25 ft-lbs. Maybe my gasket material is too thick. I am thinking about forgetting the gasket and just try some RTV. Any thoughts on that one? When you go to the auto parts store, there is about a dozen different types of RTV, should I be using a different kind? What do you guys use?

In other news, I spoke with Tom Woods Drive Shafts this afternoon and long story short, the guy I spoke with wanted me to take some pinion angle measurements with the chassis loaded. I’ve been thinking about it and the best idea I’ve come up with is to temporarily install my old hitch ball and hook up my car hauler trailer with my truck on it and use the trailer jack to slowly load the suspension to take measurements. Anyone see any problem with that idea?

__________________
1980 CJ-5
My build thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/bo...j-5-a-1290405/

"A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take everything you have." - Barry Goldwater
commadore64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-09-2011, 05:31 PM   #47
GlennLever
Web Wheeler
 
GlennLever's Avatar
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 2,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by commadore64 View Post
Boy, am I aggravated this evening! Last weekend, I totally re-did my T-18 inspection cover gasket as it began to leak when we set the tranny in the frame a little while back. Since then, every evening after work, I would walk by and run my fingers under the cover and it has been dry… until tonight. I ran my fingers under the cover and they came up oily. So, got to redo the gasket again! (see post #21) I thought I did everything right this time… cut a new gasket, used high tack on the tin side and RTV on the tranny side, finger tightened the bolts until the RTV cured then torque to about 25 ft-lbs. Maybe my gasket material is too thick. I am thinking about forgetting the gasket and just try some RTV. Any thoughts on that one? When you go to the auto parts store, there is about a dozen different types of RTV, should I be using a different kind? What do you guys use?

In other news, I spoke with Tom Woods Drive Shafts this afternoon and long story short, the guy I spoke with wanted me to take some pinion angle measurements with the chassis loaded. I’ve been thinking about it and the best idea I’ve come up with is to temporarily install my old hitch ball and hook up my car hauler trailer with my truck on it and use the trailer jack to slowly load the suspension to take measurements. Anyone see any problem with that idea?
Did you put some RTV on the threads of the bolts?
__________________
Glenn R. Lever
Rochester, New York 14617-2012
My Cars http://www.leverfamilysite.com/vehicles.htm

My restoration thread here on the Jeep forum
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cj...build-1269301/

New FED, Drag Racing Forum (I am an Administrator) at
http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php
GlennLever is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-09-2011, 05:51 PM   #48
Skerr
<*////><
 
Skerr's Avatar
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: White Springs, Florida
Posts: 8,800
[QUOTE=commadore64;12648276]Boy, am I aggravated this evening! Last weekend, I totally re-did my T-18 inspection cover gasket as it began to leak when we set the tranny in the frame a little while back. Since then, every evening after work, I would walk by and run my fingers under the cover and it has been dry… until tonight. I ran my fingers under the cover and they came up oily. So, got to redo the gasket again! (see post #21) I thought I did everything right this time… cut a new gasket, used high tack on the tin side and RTV on the tranny side, finger tightened the bolts until the RTV cured then torque to about 25 ft-lbs. Maybe my gasket material is too thick. I am thinking about forgetting the gasket and just try some RTV. Any thoughts on that one? When you go to the auto parts store, there is about a dozen different types of RTV, should I be using a different kind? What do you guys use?

In other news, I spoke with Tom Woods Drive Shafts this afternoon and long story short, the guy I spoke with wanted me to take some pinion angle measurements with the chassis loaded. I’ve been thinking about it and the best idea I’ve come up with is to temporarily install my old hitch ball and hook up my car hauler trailer with my truck on it and use the trailer jack to slowly load the suspension to take measurements. Anyone see any problem with that idea?[/QUOTE]

Bob, I think initially it sounds fine, but the only question that comes to my mind is if it is a realistic load. Your going to want to emulate the stock compression as close as you can, and I think the trailer would go beyond that. How do you know when to stop? I also think that with the weight at the rear you would be unrealistic in an "overall" suspension compression. I can't say I'm right, just wondering! Anybody have a "good" guess what the factory loaded springs would be?
__________________
Kerrdog
Go Fish! <*////><

"Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' ... If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!" —Samuel Adams

Clay's Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cl...hread-1061897/
Scott's Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/sc...5-cj7-1147913/
Fallon (and Dad) Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/f...-okee-1445206/
Skerr is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-09-2011, 07:54 PM   #49
commadore64
Jeep = bleeding money
 
commadore64's Avatar
1980 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: , Georgia
Posts: 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerr View Post
Bob, I think initially it sounds fine, but the only question that comes to my mind is if it is a realistic load. Your going to want to emulate the stock compression as close as you can, and I think the trailer would go beyond that. How do you know when to stop? I also think that with the weight at the rear you would be unrealistic in an "overall" suspension compression. I can't say I'm right, just wondering! Anybody have a "good" guess what the factory loaded springs would be?
Yeah, I didn't give ya'll all the facts on that one... just buck shot it out. The Tom Woods guy was not that concerned about the actual load on the frame with the tub on, he was more interested in the changes in angles if the springs were compressed 1", 2" and so on. So I thought using the trailer jack would be an easy way to increment the spring loads. Sorry for not giving you all the facts... my bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennLever View Post
Did you put some RTV on the threads of the bolts?
Naw, I used pipe thread compound TFE paste on the bolt threads. Suppose to be impervious to just about everything like teflon tape.
__________________
1980 CJ-5
My build thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/bo...j-5-a-1290405/

"A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take everything you have." - Barry Goldwater
commadore64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-09-2011, 07:57 PM   #50
rixcj
Web Wheeler
 
rixcj's Avatar
1979 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: RI
Posts: 1,683
Quote:
Originally Posted by commadore64 View Post
So, this past weekend I got the transmission, transfer case and skid plate all in place and bolted up. As luck would have it, the old, original rear driveshaft still fit, so I bolted it up to get some measurements and angles. Here’s what I got:
transfer case – 5º (down)
rear axle pinion – 10º (up)
drive shaft angle – 34º
drive shaft length – 16.25” (center of U-joint to center of U-joint)

I’ve done a little reading on Tom Wood’s site and it looks like I will be putting in for a double cardan shaft and rotating the rear axle up. Some of my unanswered questions at this point are: Can I rotate the axle with shims or do I need to cut the existing spring perches off and weld on new ones? I need to do some geometry to figure how much the axle needs to rotate… does anyone know the distance from the center line of the axle to the pinion? Or am I making this more complicated than I should?

Any of you guys ever had to deal with such a short, high angled drive shaft? Any comments welcome.
When I switched from a t-150/dana 20 to a t-18/dana 20, I made (shortened, welded, then, had balanced) a double cardan rear driveshaft out of an XJ front driveshaft. I'd have to go and take a measurement, to be exact, but it's about 14" long.

The jeep would develop a slight drivetrain shimmy at certain speeds.A double cardan shaft has a different geometry that a non-cardan shaft (Tom Woods site...). I wanted to point the rear axle pinion directly at the yoke of the transfer case (minus 1 or 2 degrees to compensate for rear axle angle shift, due to acceleration thrust).

In my case I needed to angle my rear axle up 6 degrees, so I installed some new steel shims and new, longer leaf spring center pins.

No vibration at all, now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by commadore64 View Post
Boy, am I aggravated this evening! Last weekend, I totally re-did my T-18 inspection cover gasket as it began to leak when we set the tranny in the frame a little while back. Since then, every evening after work, I would walk by and run my fingers under the cover and it has been dry… until tonight. I ran my fingers under the cover and they came up oily. So, got to redo the gasket again! (see post #21) I thought I did everything right this time… cut a new gasket, used high tack on the tin side and RTV on the tranny side, finger tightened the bolts until the RTV cured then torque to about 25 ft-lbs. Maybe my gasket material is too thick. I am thinking about forgetting the gasket and just try some RTV. Any thoughts on that one? When you go to the auto parts store, there is about a dozen different types of RTV, should I be using a different kind? What do you guys use?
The rule of thumb, according to the guy who assembled my 401, is that, if you use a gasket, don't use RTV with it. You can use Hi-Tack, if it helps hold a gasket in a difficult position, but that's it.

If you decide to use RTV...JUST use RTV...NO gasket.

Last weekend, I decided to replace the t-18 adapter plate seal , along with the 2 accompanying gaskets (one gasket between the t-18/adapter, and the other gasket between the adapter/dana20) in my jeep.

I just used Hi-tack to hold the gaskets in place, then bolted everything together. I DID use Permatex #2 (non-hardening) sealant on all the bolt threads that came into contact with gear lube.

No leaks.

Rich
__________________
'79 CJ5, AMC 360, t-18/d20 twin stick, dana 30/amc20(Mosers), Edelbrock Performer intake, Holley 600, ps/pb, DUI HEI, 'glass tub/1pc. tilt nose, 33x12.50 BFG AT's.

There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness".
rixcj is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-09-2011, 09:16 PM   #51
cjdogtoy
Registered User
1976 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: phoenix
Posts: 668
I use this stuff hear with no gasket, it comes in aerosol cans or a tube you can put in a caulking gun, it's pricey but it's worth it.

pc090001.jpg
cjdogtoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-10-2011, 02:40 AM   #52
rixcj
Web Wheeler
 
rixcj's Avatar
1979 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: RI
Posts: 1,683
If you're gonna use sealant...that stuff ^^^^^ is great!! Except for gasoline applications, I believe...

Just apply it, torque the piece back down, and drive away! No set-up/curing time!

Rich
__________________
'79 CJ5, AMC 360, t-18/d20 twin stick, dana 30/amc20(Mosers), Edelbrock Performer intake, Holley 600, ps/pb, DUI HEI, 'glass tub/1pc. tilt nose, 33x12.50 BFG AT's.

There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness".
rixcj is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-28-2011, 12:33 PM   #53
commadore64
Jeep = bleeding money
 
commadore64's Avatar
1980 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: , Georgia
Posts: 571
I decided to venture off into the unknown and tear into my proportioning valve. Another forum member wanted some pictures so here ya go… hope this helps if you decide to break yours down. When I removed it from the Jeep, it was covered in oil, grease, dirt, paint and undercoating. This picture is after a soak in parts cleaner and scrubbed with a brush. Note that none of the flare nuts would come off unless I cut the lines and used a socket. I plan to go back with s.s. lines anyway so I did not mind.


Here is the breakdown of the major components. I wondered about the wisdom of tearing this thing down as there are no re-build kits for this type of proportioning valve that I know of. After getting it to this point, I realized that I had nothing to lose as the inside of it was filthy and corroded. I’m not even sure it was working properly when the Jeep was running! The worst that could happen at this point is that it will not work when reinstalled. I’ll just have to buy a new one with only a few hours lost in trying to refurbish this one.

The assembly shown by the red arrow has to be persuaded out of the valve body. I used a brass drift to gently tap the assembly out from front to back. In this picture, the front is on your right. Everything else came apart without any drama and without any parts flying anywhere.


This is a cut-away view of the valve I found on the internet. It was helpful to look at before I tore into it. My apologies to whomever I stole it from.


The inside of the main body was pretty grimy. Break out your gun cleaning supplies. I found that an assortment of barrel brushes really helped… along with more parts cleaner. After I got it in pretty good shape I used hot water, soap, an old tooth brush and a tooth pick to get it really clean. A blast from the air hose got it dry.


Clean!


This is the same part I mentioned earlier. It is the plunger that moves when there is something wrong with either your front or rear brakes and trips your brake light. I don’t know the technical name for it. This picture is actually after I cleaned it.


The previous assembly broken down into its individual components. When disassembling this part, be careful when the “C” clip is removed as the plastic plunger (red arrow) is spring loaded and it will vacate the premises. The “C” clip may be stuck but should slide off the barrel without the need for any type of snap ring pliers. It slides into two parallel grooves (green arrow) in the barrel as seen in the picture. Basic cleaning procedures here. On the brass components, I did use some metal polish to shine things up a bit before reassembling. I also used a Dremel tool to clean the inside of the barrel. Again, after the heavy cleaning, hot water, soap and a tooth brush before putting it back together.


This is the metering valve assembly. I elected not to try to disassemble this unit as the spring is pretty stiff. I scrubbed it first with parts cleaner then hot water and soap.


I kept scrubbing until my soap stopped turning brown. This is the final cleaned product.


This is the cap that goes over the metering valve. I made sure to clean the hole in the back of the cap where the metering valve recesses into. Again, I used a Dremel tool (carefully) in the hole with a piece of cloth and some metal polish and then hit the whole cap with a little more metal polish.


This is the rear section of the valve where the rear brake line attaches. The cleaning procedure was the same as the other components. However, I don’t know what the rubber stopper is as shown by the arrow in the picture. When I first placed the whole proportioning valve into the parts cleaner, I did not even know it was there. Now, the rubber has the consistency of a gummy worm. I don’t know if it is suppose to be like that or if the parts cleaner softened it up. Anyone know what it is for?


And finally the brake light switch. I did not try to take it apart. Just flushed it with parts cleaner and worked the brass plunger until crap stopped falling out of it. A quick scrub with hot water and soap and blew it out with the air compressor. I then hit it with a little light oil around the brass plunger and worked it until it smoothed out a little.


Everything cleaned, polished and ready for reassembly. I hit all the “O” rings with a little light oil to keep everything from seizing up until I get the rest of the brake components installed and bleed (which is probably gonna be a while). The plunger I had to tap out again needs to be gently pressed back in. I used a small diameter deep-well socket sized to press only on the outer rim of the brass barrel to reinsert it back into the valve body. I was careful not to fully depress the plastic plunger that resides inside the brass barrel as I felt that in doing so could damage it. I pushed on the whole plunger assembly until I could see the narrowed section in the middle appear in the hole where the brake light switch screws in.


Everything put back together. As I mentioned earlier, I cannot be sure that it is all going to work as it should, but I don’t think I am any worse off since there was so much crap in the valve to begin with. At the very least, it is now clean. Inside the unit, I did not find any worn parts and the “O” rings were in great shape.

I’m no expert, but if you have any questions, post them and I will do my best to answer.
__________________
1980 CJ-5
My build thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/bo...j-5-a-1290405/

"A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take everything you have." - Barry Goldwater
commadore64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-28-2011, 07:42 PM   #54
TUBBS
Junior Member
1976 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Klamath Falls, Oregon
Posts: 21
Amazing attention to detail, very impressive build
TUBBS is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-30-2011, 02:07 PM   #55
dan-cj7
Registered User
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: , Australia
Posts: 138
Nice job, I might give it it a try with mine now. I was going to leave it but you have given some valuable info. Well Done.
__________________
1984 CJ7 - Under construction
4.6L stroker with MPI & AX15 with D300
OME 2.5" YJ springs
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/dans-downunder-84-cj7-build-1299387/
dan-cj7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-30-2011, 07:57 PM   #56
commadore64
Jeep = bleeding money
 
commadore64's Avatar
1980 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: , Georgia
Posts: 571
Oh and BTW, I think I have solved my gasket problems with my transmission and transfer case inspection covers... I only used this stuff and no gaskets with no leaks so far. It is expensive but seems to have done the trick. Thanks to all that recommended it.
permatex-right-stuff.jpg  
__________________
1980 CJ-5
My build thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/bo...j-5-a-1290405/

"A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take everything you have." - Barry Goldwater
commadore64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-30-2011, 10:43 PM   #57
Skerr
<*////><
 
Skerr's Avatar
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: White Springs, Florida
Posts: 8,800
Heck of a nice build detail, Bob. Thank you very much. And congrats on the gasket success!
__________________
Kerrdog
Go Fish! <*////><

"Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' ... If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!" —Samuel Adams

Clay's Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cl...hread-1061897/
Scott's Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/sc...5-cj7-1147913/
Fallon (and Dad) Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/f...-okee-1445206/
Skerr is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-16-2012, 08:37 PM   #58
Dresden
Registered User
2004 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 43
Nice job so far. I look forward to more.
__________________
[B][I]jason[/I][/B]

________________
[URL="http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/1976-cj5-project-1308309/#post12774000"][B]CJ5 build thread[/B][/URL]
[URL="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185352"][B]My shop thread [/URL][/B]
Dresden is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-16-2012, 08:59 PM   #59
cjdogtoy
Registered User
1976 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: phoenix
Posts: 668
glad the gasket sealer worked for you. keep up the good work.
cjdogtoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-13-2012, 10:09 PM   #60
Skerr
<*////><
 
Skerr's Avatar
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: White Springs, Florida
Posts: 8,800
HEY BOB!!!

Where are you? Time to get up!
__________________
Kerrdog
Go Fish! <*////><

"Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' ... If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!" —Samuel Adams

Clay's Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cl...hread-1061897/
Scott's Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/sc...5-cj7-1147913/
Fallon (and Dad) Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/f...-okee-1445206/
Skerr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.