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Unread 11-29-2011, 07:29 PM   #31
ASteve
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Wow... Nice work so far ... subscribed ...

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Unread 11-30-2011, 07:38 AM   #32
commadore64
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Hey Steve, nice Jeep... I hope mine looks as good as yours one day!
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Unread 11-30-2011, 08:07 AM   #33
dirt_dobber
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Really like the way you rebuilt the T18 (and your great pics are awesome). subscribed!
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Unread 12-05-2011, 12:22 PM   #34
commadore64
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So, this past weekend I got the transmission, transfer case and skid plate all in place and bolted up. As luck would have it, the old, original rear driveshaft still fit, so I bolted it up to get some measurements and angles. Here’s what I got:
transfer case – 5º (down)
rear axle pinion – 10º (up)
drive shaft angle – 34º
drive shaft length – 16.25” (center of U-joint to center of U-joint)

I’ve done a little reading on Tom Wood’s site and it looks like I will be putting in for a double cardan shaft and rotating the rear axle up. Some of my unanswered questions at this point are: Can I rotate the axle with shims or do I need to cut the existing spring perches off and weld on new ones? I need to do some geometry to figure how much the axle needs to rotate… does anyone know the distance from the center line of the axle to the pinion? Or am I making this more complicated than I should?

Any of you guys ever had to deal with such a short, high angled drive shaft? Any comments welcome.



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Unread 12-05-2011, 12:53 PM   #35
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I have the same issue. I will be having Tom Wood make me a Double Cardan and shim the springs to point the pinion to the rear of the T.C. I called Tom and he said that he would make the steel spring shims. At that time my jeep had 2.5" lift springs with 5" shackles and he thought a 6 degree ship would work. My drive shaft was 15.75" long and sat at 26 Degrees, but after I install my 4" lift springs in the rear and 4" shackles this will increase...

Then I'll take all the measurents Tom needs and give him a call...

So, I gues I'm giving you a long winded reply to give Tom a call...

Good luck.

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Unread 12-05-2011, 06:43 PM   #36
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Your shaft will get even shorter once you twist the pinion up. Have you also lowered your tranny? Shims will work fine. Moving the perches is, IMO, more pro-like. Shims are a lot less work! Jim Crabtree can make you a real nice set of shims (Jim1611) if you want to holler at him.
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Unread 12-05-2011, 07:10 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerr View Post
Your shaft will get even shorter once you twist the pinion up. Have you also lowered your tranny? Shims will work fine. Moving the perches is, IMO, more pro-like. Shims are a lot less work! Jim Crabtree can make you a real nice set of shims (Jim1611) if you want to holler at him.
X2 on Jim Crabtree...He made my shackles for my '72.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/da...l#post12585991

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Unread 12-05-2011, 07:28 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerr View Post
Your shaft will get even shorter once you twist the pinion up. Have you also lowered your tranny? Shims will work fine. Moving the perches is, IMO, more pro-like. Shims are a lot less work! Jim Crabtree can make you a real nice set of shims (Jim1611) if you want to holler at him.
To show my ignorance Scott, how do you lower your tranny? If I try to tilt the engine/tranny further down, the MORE mounts will get in a bind… is that how to do it? As far as the shims go, I just didn’t know if the shim route was kinda the half-a** way to do it… just want to make sure I am doing things the right way. And yeah, I know that rotating the axle will shorten the shaft some, but I don’t think by much… Tom Woods says on their site that they can do a shaft as short as about 12” and I’m at 16+ now so I hope that wouldn’t be a problem… just $$$. BTW, if the shim route is the way to go, then yeah, I’ll talk to Jim1611… you reading this Jim?
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Unread 12-05-2011, 07:35 PM   #39
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Oh, and if the shim route is the way to go, what is the best way to calculate how many degrees the shims need to be?
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Unread 12-05-2011, 07:37 PM   #40
ASteve
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Here's Jim's website for contact info...

http://www.crabtreetool.com/

Also, your tranny and TC are supported by the skid plate. You can shim the skid plate off the frame to lower the tranny and TC. Hope that made sense...

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Unread 12-05-2011, 07:39 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by commadore64 View Post
Oh, and if the shim route is the way to go, what is the best way to calculate how many degrees the shims need to be?
Tom Wood needs your Tranny angle, pinion angle and driveshaft angle. From there he will know what degree shim you will need. It's on his site on how to measure.

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Unread 12-05-2011, 07:44 PM   #42
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Yep I'm watching.

I was thinking on your engine mounts one option you have it to redrill the holes in the bracket that bolts to the block. You'd need to weld the back hole up and drill a new one further away from the block. That would let you lower the transfer case if you decide to.

On your axles and shims. The only kind of shim I'd use are steel and the kind that use the spring pack bolt to hold them to the springs. It's as good as it can be done when using shims. You could also cut the perches loose and rotate the axle and weld new ones in the correct place. To me this is by far best however I haven't heard any problems with the steel bolt on shims as of yet. It's your call on that option but if you want some shims I can fix you up, new shim blots too. Degree shims are $32.70 a pair.

Something else I'd suggest while you're at it. You're going to be putting more torque to the wheels with the larger engine you're running. That's going to put more stress on the axles. I would recommend upgrading to 5/8" u-bolts over the factory 1/2".

Now as far as the angle you need to shim the axle. If I were you I'd wait and have everything sitting on the frame so that the full weight of the rig is being supported by the springs. It will sit lower than it is rigt now depending on how stiff the springs are. Once that's established you can then determine the angle to make it. It varies too when you use the double cardan joint as opposed to not using it. The pinion and output shaft need to be a slightly different angle. The Woods site should help you with that.

Nice work
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Unread 12-05-2011, 08:04 PM   #43
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This is a fantastic build and great thread...KEEP IT UP!! Thanks!
Cheers,
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Unread 12-05-2011, 08:45 PM   #44
commadore64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim1611 View Post
Yep I'm watching.

Now as far as the angle you need to shim the axle. If I were you I'd wait and have everything sitting on the frame so that the full weight of the rig is being supported by the springs. It will sit lower than it is rigt now depending on how stiff the springs are. Once that's established you can then determine the angle to make it. It varies too when you use the double cardan joint as opposed to not using it. The pinion and output shaft need to be a slightly different angle. The Woods site should help you with that.
Yeah, your'e right... the best way to do this is with everything on the frame... but is there a way to estimate the additional spring sag? It is so easy doing this work without the tub on the frame. The springs are new OME 2.5" YJ springs. Maybe someone with those springs can give me some idea of how much they will settle.

I'm gonna contact Tom Wood and see what they say about the situation. I would rather not have to lower the tranny/tc if I don't have to.

(What the heck was I thinking when I started this? )
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Unread 12-05-2011, 10:09 PM   #45
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I'm no expert in this field, Bob, and I don't want to mislead you. Lowering the tranny came out of my mouth (or off my fingers ) without even thinking about it. I have seen it done on so many threads, and I did it too. What it involves is placing a shim (as ASteve mentioned) between the frame and transmission crossmember. I used 1" square tubing as a spacer. It lowered my transmission enough that I feel good about the angle. Mine was like yours beforehand. Some of the guys on here can tell you all about angles in their sleep, and understand it!! I'm not one of those! I don't know how it would work in relation to your drivetrain. With my factory 258 and stock tranny/TC it's no problem. Better wait for a more knowledgable opinion.

I agree with Jim that you should wait until you have your springs loaded. I don't think there's any way to tell how much your springs are going to settle, but maybe it's not critical. Let us know what Tom Woods says... Wish I was better help!
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