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Blown head gasket

3K views 31 replies 13 participants last post by  turkish6 
#1 ·
OK, so I'm pretty sure I've got a blown head gasket in my F-head 4 cyl. That means a costly repair that I'm willing to do, but I'm wondering if this isn't the Jeep gods telling me it's time to switch to a different motor? It'll be at least a grand for the repair and valve job (probably a bit more) and I suppose I'm wondering if I should drop that coin fixing my 4 cyl or should I look for a larger engine (Dauntless or 304)?

Would I be getting myself into a monster, super expensive project to make the conversion? I have to admit that I'd like to HAVE a 6 or V8, but I can always buy another Jeep later if I need to and pass this one down. I guess the question comes down to whether I'd be a fool to spend $1000-1500 to end up with a 4cyl when I can spend a little more and have a new, considerably larger engine (no idea on the cost of such an endeavor).

Any words of wisdom would be appreciated!
 
#2 ·
judgement call -
how close are you to a stock model - thinking a stock set is worth more, think 'restored'

A custom built up mis matched - do what ever you feel - remember might not be a drop in and tinkering, modifications are time consuming and can be frustrating.
 
#3 ·
Outside of upgrading to Rancho shocks and a dual reservoir master cylinder, I'm stock all the way to the rims. After I make this decision on the engine, I'll be rhino lining the interior and painting the exterior and engine bay.

Maybe a stock set is worth more? That's a good point the more I think about it. I have zero plans to sell it, but the day may come that I get an offer I can't refuse...
 

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#5 ·
$1000-$1500? Someone is trying to take advantage of you.

Restoring my 1964 CJ3B with the original F head 134, I had $1500 in parts and machine work to give it's F head 134 a total rebuild.
I did the assembly myself.

Replacing the head gasket is a very simple job on this engine.
Order a reprint copy of the Kaiser Jeep service manual.

Granted, the F-134 is pretty weak (75hp) but your jeep looks really nice. I wouldn't modify it.
Vintage jeeps in stock form are getting scarce.
 
#6 ·
I'm reasonably handy with tools, but I don't really have the time to invest and don't have the first clue how to do it. I mean, brake work, minor maintenance...sure. Plus, I don't even know if I have to pull the motor to do that stuff. I'm just totally lost on it and don't really want to spend weeks screwing it up to realize I'm in over my head (see what I did there?).

The grand was with magnaflux and surfacing. His actual labor is only a few hundred.
 
#8 ·
I wish that I lived closer, I could walk you through the job pretty easily. And I think that you would enjoy the accomplishment in the end.

Unless the engine has overheated in the past, I wouldn't worry too much about warping of the head and block. The head gasket has probably failed because of age (corrosion).

That said, it's always prudent to resurface a head, and check the block deck for flatness during a head gasket change. But, this job would be so easy to do over, I wouldn't worry about it.

You don't have to remove the engine to do this job.
Necessary requirements for this job would be a Service Manual, a torque wrench and a set of feelers gauges are the only special tools needed.
The valve lash probably needs checked and adjusted anyhow.
Lots of good info on the F-134 engine here.http://cj3b.info/Tech.html
Here is a link to my restoration http://cj3b.info/Military/Walton64.html
 
#9 ·
Thanks for the encouragement. I really like to wrench, but I think the job just intimidates the hell out of me and I’ve convinced myself that I just need to have it done.

I’ll look at it before I have it done.


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#12 ·
this is a very easy job.
If you do it yourself, you should be under 500 bucks and that includes having the head checked.
An engine swap (having somebody else do it) is gonna land you in the 3 to 5K range.
Here is a nice write up. it is for the L head, but your F is similar.
http://legacy.1942gpw.com/c-121-MB_...ur_Jeep_L134_Engine_Cylinder_Head_Gasket.aspx
You can lap and adjust the valves as well when you are in there.......
 
#14 ·
Actually, that was just a guess....I got the final word today. I got it today because my mechanic didn't have the heart to tell me on Friday the 13th.

Blown engine, no real warning. His suggestion is to send it to Jasper's and have it taken down to the screws and rebuilt from the block up. Expensive, but it could possibly be worth it because it'll be awesome on the back side. Jasper's is kind of known for making these engines better than off the line.

I figure I'll have it shipped and rebuilt and while it's at Jasper's, I'll drag it over to the body shop and have the little bit of body work on the underside done and painted outside and inside the engine bay.

I guess what I've got to decide is if I'm willing to throw $10k at it (between paint and repair). It'll have a basically new engine, new brakes (as in days old with a dual reservoir MC), brand new tires and a brand new paint job. If I try to part it out now, I'd bet I won't get over $2,000 but if I put all of this into it, the value won't matter because it'll be so awesome, I'll never want to sell it.
 
#18 ·
I know we moved past the head gasket, but I wanted to say on a f-134 that is an easy job. Order new bolts, take the head to shop to have it checked and make sure the surface is true, but a new gasket and some copper spray. 1 afternoon to remove it, and one to put it back. I think that machine shot charged me $100, the felt-pro gasket was 20isn, i had to buy feeler gauge for the valves, and the new bolts were 40$. I learned allot. Very glad I did that by my self. BTW: you need a friend to help put the head back on the block with out messing up the perfect new gasket.

This is a very common problem with the F-134, and worth knowing how to do.
 
#19 ·
Symptoms: tons of bluish smoke pouring from the engine compartment when driving, but only when under compression. So much so it would fill up the cab. It also had a loud puttering sound and it had roughly half of the power.

I thought maybe it was an exhaust issue initially, but the muffler shop said the exhaust was solid and it was actually escaping under the manifold and thats when I took it to a highly recommended mechanic who I have gotten to know a little bit over time.

He didn’t tell me it was a blown head gasket, that was just my guess. He actually took the head off and found that the pistons weren’t great and one of my cylinders was basically dead (hence the lack of power, all of a sudden I was driving a 3 cylinder jeep).

He suggested Jasper because he doesn’t rebuilt motors like this and he didn’t really trust anyone locally (or even in San Antonio) to build to how he’d like to have it back if it was his.

As an aside, I wasn’t crying about the money. I just wasn’t emotionally prepared to have an additional $5k thrown into the equation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#21 ·
Hi, You can NOT tell much about a piston just by removing the head Maybe see ring scratches in the cylinder walls... a dead cylinder can just be a bad valve in the head too.. He would have had to check for a dead cylinder before he removed the head with a compression/leak down test. A bad plug or plug wire can cause a dead cylinder while running or bad ignition parts (rotor, cap or points) even a gummed up distributor cam lobe can cause the points to jump around and not hit every time.
What do you mean under compression? when slowing down or just running? (just running the motor is full of compression every other time the piston comes up it has compression).
Smoke from under the hood could be a gasket leaking oil onto the exhaust manifold.. Just saying but, even a highly recommended mechanic does not mean he knows what he is talking about especially if he doesn't rebuild motors. All motors are designed the same so saying "like this" doesn't make sense for a real mechanic to say that??? Second opinion's are your best knowledge.
good luck
tim
 
#22 ·
I'd ask for a second opinion. That is a fairly simple engine to work on so if Jasper can rebuild it then any competent and willing mechanic can do the job. Some old school machine shops might do it for you--at least rebuild the short block and head. Today's younger mechanics who work on cars and trucks designed to last 250K miles often don't have the experience to rebuild an engine and opt to just replace one. Even those who can may not want to devote the time away from general maintenance work.

My first stop would be the local vocational high school or community college automotive shop. Instructors like to have a simple engine to teach their students how to rebuild an engine. They may also be able to do the machine work. You'll have to pay for parts and they will appreciate any donation you can make so they can purchase tools and machines. Doing so will ensure there may be a younger mechanic knowledgeable in repairing a similar engine next time.
 
#23 ·
OK, so the final total came in. Jasper wants $4200 to rebuild it down to the screws, machine and rebore, replace the moving parts, paint the engine back to the original scheme (or any color I choose for that matter) which seems insane, but the upside is that it has a 3 year/100k mile warranty that includes all labor during that period. The mechanic is adding another $2500 on top of that to do his part, replace the water pump, hoses and clutch and paint any residual parts that need it.

I'm going to get a second opinion from someone that specializes in older engines (when I find that person), but after a little thought and prayer, I realize that rebuilding it myself just probably isn't in the cards. I just don't have the kind of time and DEFINITELY not the skillset to take on something like this. I'm expanding my practice and have too many irons in the fire to commit to a garage full of exploded engine right now.

In their words, assuming the body shop does their part (which is ANOTHER $4k), it'll be auction block quality. So, worst case, I'll have roughly $15k invested which isn't horrible or I can sell it for at LEAST what I have in it (honestly, though if it's that awesome, why would I sell it? To replace it with something that DOESN'T have the warranty or confidence?).
 
#24 ·
So, worst case, I'll have roughly $15k invested which isn't horrible or I can sell it for at LEAST what I have in it
I wouldn't assume that, especially for a Jeep with a non-original engine and paint. That rarely happens.

A quick search showed only one late 50's or early '60s CJ for sale at a price anywhere close to $15K. And that one is a complete frame-off restoration. I also note it's been listed for almost 3 weeks on this site:

http://willysforsale.com/ads/1961-willys-cj5-completely-restored/

There are many nice looking CJs of that era for sell for less than $10K.

Of course, if you never plan to sell it, then it really doesn't matter how much you put in to it, if your wallet is fat enough.

Matt
 
#25 ·
Nothing wrong with not having the skills, and resources to do a rebuild on an old engine.

I sincerely hope that you can find someone locally who can help you out without taking advantage of you.


That price quote from Jasper is insane, and your mechanic is out of his mind also.

$2500 to remove old engine, reinstall engine after being rebuilt, install new clutch, water pump, & hoses, and some detailing of engine bay. You need to find another mechanic.
 
#29 ·
$2500 to remove old engine, reinstall engine after being rebuilt, install new clutch, water pump, & hoses, and some detailing of engine bay. You need to find another mechanic.
At $100 an hour for labor, that's 25 hours.
3 days to do what could be done in 1 day (okay, 1.5 days) by someone who knows what they are doing.
You're guy obviously doesn't.

I'll look up the Willys flat rate time schedule for this job.
You'll be surprised........
 
#32 ·
Just in case this comes back to being about the head gasket.

I had never done any major wrenching before when I tackled mine (4.2L). I made a huge deal about it in my head but in retro spec it's one of easiest things I've done on the Jeep. Everyone one here helped out and offered great advice. One in particular was during reassembly to cut the heads off the old bolts and use them as guides to lower the head correctly. I'm assuming the same will work on the 4cyl.

Good luck!
 
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