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Unread 10-21-2013, 03:46 AM   #16
2Xtreme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motiv8ya View Post
Mine happened under load, don't know why it was so pronounced under load and not when idling but removing and reinstalling each bolt with some loc-tite fixed it.
I'm pretty sure I torqued them to spec with loctite, but I'll redo them.

Getting desperate at this point...

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Unread 10-21-2013, 06:43 AM   #17
Matt1981CJ7
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2x,

Unfortunately, strange noises are pretty difficult to diagnose, if you can't isolate the noise.

It may be time to take it to an experienced mechanic, instead of going on another wild goose chase like you did with the engine.

Matt
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Unread 10-21-2013, 07:07 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
...It may be time to take it to an experienced mechanic, instead of going on another wild goose chase like you did with the engine.

Matt
Yup....
This is exactly what I was thinking.

Going to check a few (mostly) simple things that I came across while digging. But once those are eliminated, I'm going to make the call....

Just sucks not being able to get it on my own - with the forums help, of course!
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Unread 10-21-2013, 07:13 AM   #19
gmakra
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2Xtreme are you calling the noise you hear pinging?

See what I am having a problem with is that you claim the noise is still there after a new engine. So is it the same noise you had before?

To me it sounds like you swapped the carb from your old engine to the new one. And if the carb was running lean under a high load i.e. acceleration you could have a pinging problem.

I would verify that the carb is adjusted properly before proceeding further.

See if you can get your hands on a wide band O-2 meter and check the AFR when you jump on the accelerator I would suspect it leans out big time.

Your accelerator pump maybe be bad or way out of adjustment.
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Unread 10-21-2013, 07:36 AM   #20
2Xtreme
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Originally Posted by gmakra View Post
2Xtreme are you calling the noise you hear pinging?

See what I am having a problem with is that you claim the noise is still there after a new engine. So is it the same noise you had before?

To me it sounds like you swapped the carb from your old engine to the new one. And if the carb was running lean under a high load i.e. acceleration you could have a pinging problem.

I would verify that the carb is adjusted properly before proceeding further.

See if you can get your hands on a wide band O-2 meter and check the AFR when you jump on the accelerator I would suspect it leans out big time.

Your accelerator pump maybe be bad or way out of adjustment.
It is definitely the same noise as before. Pinging/ knocking... I don't know what to call it. it kind of sounds like valvetrain clatter...

I did swap the carb from the other engine onto this one, and there was considerable talk/ effort regarding carb adjustment in my other thread.
We went round and round trying to dial it in. But would definitely be a good idea to look into.

Right now I am going through the whole heat cycle/ torquing of the manifold bolts to ensure they stay sealed. Once that is accomplished I will take another look at the carb and accelerator pump.

I can probably get my hands on a o2 meter, but will have to have a bung welded into my header first.
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Unread 10-21-2013, 07:38 AM   #21
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So I guess no one thinks it could be what I said about the inspection plate. I have the same tranny as X. On mine it sounded like the Q-trac chain was slipping, I knew the chain was in good condition, so that ruled that out. The noise I experianced sounded like the worst pinging I ever heard. The plate was apparently vibrating against the mounting surface of the flexplate. And only under load! In 2nd and 3rd gear, during hard exceleration.

It's a 10 minute job to pull the plate and have a look. Use a flashlight to look at the back of the flywheel where the big plate may be too close, and for evidence of the inspection plate rubbing. Not going to hurt a thing to drive it without the inspection plate. Start with the simple stuff first.
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Unread 10-21-2013, 07:40 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by lucdog View Post
So I guess no one thinks it could be what I said about the inspection plate....
Don;t get me wrong, I'm definitely not ruling that out.
And it's an easy check.

I don't remember seeing any contact marks on the inspection plate when I had it off.
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Unread 10-21-2013, 07:55 AM   #23
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Bill,

For 2X's sake, I hope you are correct. He's been thru he!! chasing this noise.

BTW, I NEVER discount any advise you give. Your track record speaks for itself.

Matt
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Unread 10-21-2013, 08:04 AM   #24
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Bill,

For 2X's sake, I hope you are correct. He's been thru he!! chasing this noise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
...BTW, I NEVER discount any advise you give. Your track record speaks for itself.
^^^ THIS!
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Unread 10-21-2013, 08:13 AM   #25
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When I hear someone describing an engine is pinging, the first thing that comes to mind is detonation or pre-ignition. Detonation is when the flame front in the combustion chamber is travelling too fast and is causing too much pressure on the opposite side of the chamber. When these two fronts come together it can cause a pinging noise. Pre-ignition is when the air fuel mixture ignites before the spark plug fires, usually caused from high heat in the combustion chamber. Both of these conditions are usually only heard under load and are caused by too far advanced ignition timing, low fuel octane, and lean conditions.

The first I would check is timing. Did you reuse the old balancer? The outer ring may have slipped and you are setting the timing incorrectly. The original distributor may have a broken advance spring causing the timing to advance too quickly.

The first thing I would do is retard the ignition timing and see if the condition improves, if it does, confirm top dead center is correctly marked on the balancer. Check total advance and when the timing starts to advance. If retarding the timing doesn't improve the condition then you can look else where.

Just remember trying to diagnose a noise with out hearing it is very difficult. Try the timing and let us know, then we can go frome ther.
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Unread 10-21-2013, 08:19 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by algmmech View Post
When I hear someone describing an engine is pinging, the first thing that comes to mind is detonation or pre-ignition. Detonation is when the flame front in the combustion chamber is travelling too fast and is causing too much pressure on the opposite side of the chamber. When these two fronts come together it can cause a pinging noise. Pre-ignition is when the air fuel mixture ignites before the spark plug fires, usually caused from high heat in the combustion chamber. Both of these conditions are usually only heard under load and are caused by too far advanced ignition timing, low fuel octane, and lean conditions.

The first I would check is timing. Did you reuse the old balancer? The outer ring may have slipped and you are setting the timing incorrectly. The original distributor may have a broken advance spring causing the timing to advance too quickly.

The first thing I would do is retard the ignition timing and see if the condition improves, if it does, confirm top dead center is correctly marked on the balancer. Check total advance and when the timing starts to advance. If retarding the timing doesn't improve the condition then you can look else where.

Just remember trying to diagnose a noise with out hearing it is very difficult. Try the timing and let us know, then we can go frome ther.
He's been around that block a dozen times. He even swapped in a different engine, but the noise persists.

It's gotta be driveline related, IMO

Matt
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Unread 10-21-2013, 08:23 AM   #27
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I know Matt! I just want to make sure the simple stuff is first on the list.
X, it could also be the large spacer, ( for lack of a better term) . Just look with a flashlight.
Bill
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1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
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Unread 10-21-2013, 08:27 AM   #28
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X, it could also be the large spacer, ( for lack of a better term) . Just look with a flashlight.
Bill
Large spacer?
Not sure what you are referring to.
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Unread 10-21-2013, 09:15 AM   #29
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Did you use you're pulleys off the old engine?? My crank pulley was cracked,like a cracked flywheel can do, and made considerable noise.

Dave in Muskegon
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Unread 10-21-2013, 09:42 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by dg6772 View Post
Did you use you're pulleys off the old engine?? My crank pulley was cracked,like a cracked flywheel can do, and made considerable noise.

Dave in Muskegon
Only things used off of the old engine were:

Intake/ carb
Header
Flex plate

Crossing my fingers it's not the flex plate....
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