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Unread 05-15-2008, 12:36 AM   #1
crawdad
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Battery Ground Cable

Hey guys, where is the correct place to ground the NEG battery cable? Right now, mine is bolted to the right side engine motor mount. This seemed kinda strange to me, but what do I know. Where do you folks run the ground cable? Thanks.

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Unread 05-15-2008, 02:38 AM   #2
JeepHammer
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How about this to end your 'Ground Issues'...
This one give you a 'Binding Post' for all your dedicated ground that come next to keep things working...



This shows you the correct place for the 'Starter Ground' to be positioned...
Since the starter is the single largest current draw on the vehicle, the large 'Ground Cable' should be attached to one of it's mounting bolts!
DON'T TORTURE THE STARTER!



Remember, if the starter has a ground, you should probably make a good positive cable connection also...



4 Ga. WELDING cable is usually the best battery cable, and NAPA has that and the best Crimp on battery terminal ends (not cheap lead bolt on terminals!) you can find about anywhere...



And don't forget the alternator!
Every single electron your vehicle uses is created in the alternator!



10 Ga. wire for both the positive and negative to the alternator.
If you use a 10 Ga. wire for the positive, use a 12 Ga. fusible link to protect it.



Look for a bolt hole on the back of your alternator. Use a 1/2" long (NO LONGER!) bolt to connect your dedicated ground wire!.



-----------------------------------------------

Electrically speaking, A jeep is about 6 or 7 parts flying in very close formation, but not actually touching...
So, dedicated ground wires from the 'Binding Post' shown in the first diagram to the major parts or parts groups will keep you from having the 'Mystery' electrical problems you read about so much here....

One dedicated ground should go to the rear of the vehicle.
Tail lights and fuel tank sender.

One dedicated ground should go to the dash panel, where all your gauges and panel lights are, and some switches ground through that panel.

One dedicated ground should go to the grill shell where all your front end lights ground.

One dedicated ground should go to the engine head(s) and continue over to the 'Black' wire on the ignition module so both the high voltage and low voltage from the ignition gets a ground...
You will find your engine gauges work better when the engine is properly grounded also!

I usually run one dedicated ground to the body 'tub' and to the frame.
Keeps things like fan blower motor working and stuff like that.
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Unread 05-15-2008, 03:07 AM   #3
crawdad
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That's about as detailed of an answer as one could ask for and I appreciate it very much. That will definitely help me out with lots of issues. Thanks again.
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Unread 05-15-2008, 09:30 AM   #4
Happy Joe
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I run the battery neg to the block, a ground from there to the tub, a ground from the block ground to the alt, and one to the computer ground point. I have considered installing a separate ground to the starter but it has never been necessary.
Occasionally, it is necessary to run a seperate ground to the dash and lights due to corrosion, or fresh paint, in the ground path, its a good idea in any case (especially if the lights are yellow in color, or remotely mounted)

Jeephammer's system is probably a bit better.

Enjoy!
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Unread 05-15-2008, 11:29 AM   #5
JeepHammer
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If you "Ground" to the block, the current has to fight it's way from the starter,
through the corroded aluminum starter frame,
through the rusty mounting bolts,
through the corroded aluminum bell housing,
through the rusty bell housing bolts,
through the rusty engine block flange bolt holes,
through the cast iron engine block (cast iron isn't that great of a conductor),
through the rusty 'Grounding' bolt,
through corroded 'Ground Wire' terminals,
through a 22+ year old 'Ground Cable',
through a corroded battery connector connection,
through a corroded connector to battery terminal...

Let's not forget the thermal expansion that happens when all the bolts get hot and expand, releasing the terminals/connections, making them loose...
-------------------------------

Same for the head(s).
With a stock Jeep/Motorcraft/DuraSpark ignition...
The Secondary, Or 'High Voltage' is looking to ground 18,000 to 25,000 volts to a head that is sitting on a non conductive layer of gaskets,
Rusty bolts or bolts with sealer on them.

The ENTIRE primary side of the ignition (Low Voltage) is the Ignition coil, Module are trying to ground through a single wire that is anchored to the distributor...
NOW,
The distributor is aluminum housing and is 22+ years old, that means it's corroded,
The distributor clamp is a rusty bolt in a rusty bolt hole, and it's a painted or rusty piece of metal on a corroded distributor housing and the other end anchors on a painted or rusty engine block.
If you are counting on the MOVING distributor or oil pump connections, DON'T!
Vibrating/oil covered metal is NOT a reliable connection.
Some people think the aluminum housing will ground where it connects to the engine block or timing cover... Not when it's covered in oil film schllac from years of service...

Don't torture your ignition module! Give it a ground!
If you have repeated failure of good quality modules, rest assured it's because of a poor ground to the module.

Don't torture your ignition coil, give the heads a ground!
If you have an cooked an ignition coil, rest assured the ONLY way to smoke a coil is insufficient ground to the head(s)/spark plugs.

Every one of the, "When I put on the brakes or turn signals, strange things happen" posts are lack of ground.

Poor Grounds will even cause your vehicle to rust/corrode, it's called 'Electrolysis'...
And Electrolysis is responsible for lots of light socket problems, corroded connectors, failed switching, ect.

So do your self a favor and when you are working on something and have the harness apart anyway, ADD DEDICATED GROUNDS!

When you are chainging the battery cables,
DO NOT buy those 'China' cheap ones from the discount stores!

Buy 4 Ga. or larger welding cable, use solid copper, Crimp on terminals,
CRIMP, THEN SOLDER with silver bearing solder,
Then heat shrink the connections. Heat shrink is cheap, easy to use, and comes in colors so you can color code your connections to make things easier next time!
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Unread 05-15-2008, 12:19 PM   #6
CopperCJ7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crawdad View Post
Hey guys, where is the correct place to ground the NEG battery cable? Right now, mine is bolted to the right side engine motor mount. This seemed kinda strange to me, but what do I know. Where do you folks run the ground cable? Thanks.
And like previously stated, I ran a dedicated ground wire to a grounding block mounted to my firewall (inside). And then I ran all of my gauge and indicator light grounds to that grounding bar.

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Quote:
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What CJ owner doesn't want to hack up his harness for the next owner to have fun with?
Quote:
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The thread will derail quicker than a walrus on a Crisco-soaked Slip 'n' Slide.

Last edited by CopperCJ7; 05-15-2008 at 12:34 PM..
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Unread 05-15-2008, 01:39 PM   #7
TAYLWALKER
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All Grounding From The Battery Goes To The Block, Usually To The Bolt Just Below And Between Plug #1 And 2, My 78 I Have Relocated It The The Where The Old Coil Bracket Went But Still To The Block. On The Other Side Should Be A Ground Strap From The Block To The Frame

Hope This Helps
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Unread 05-16-2008, 05:11 AM   #8
St.Patrick
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very helpfull info JeepHammer.
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Unread 05-16-2008, 09:38 AM   #9
Happy Joe
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Quote:
If you "Ground" to the block, the current has to fight it's way from the starter,
through the corroded aluminum starter frame,
through the rusty mounting bolts,
through the corroded aluminum bell housing,
through the rusty bell housing bolts,
through the rusty engine block flange bolt holes,
through the cast iron engine block (cast iron isn't that great of a conductor),
through the rusty 'Grounding' bolt,
through corroded 'Ground Wire' terminals,
through a 22+ year old 'Ground Cable',
through a corroded battery connector connection,
through a corroded connector to battery terminal...
I agree; however starter grounding has yet to be a problem on any vehicle that I have owned (or worked on). A great many vehicles are designed with a block ground and it works fine, for the most part (if you want to see if it is a potential ((pun intended)) problem monitor a voltmeter that is hooked from the battery ground point to the starter frame while starting, then hook a jumper cable between the two points and monitor/start it again the difference in the two readings is the voltage drop due to the iron block/rust/corrosion etc.).
If/when it becomes a problem I will run a separate ground to the starter (if someone is re-grounding as a project it would be little trouble or cost and might help the starter do its job).

I agree good grounding is essential for proper operation...

When heat shrinking, use internally coated, hot melt adhesive, heat shrink tubing, or use a hot melt glue gun and coat the terminal first then heat shrink it (it keeps the moisture out better).

When soldering DO NOT use plumbing flux as it is relatively acidic and will promote corrosion (MA rosin flux or a military quality no clean flux would be advisable).

Galvanic or electrolytic corrosion is typically caused by metals having substantially different electronegitivities (iron/steel and aluminum for example) these form a battery of sorts in the presents of moisture and corrosion rapidly ensues. Some standard activities to reduce this include; insulating one of the two parts from the other use of stainless hardware to connect them, the use of sacrificial strips that corrode first, preserving the rest.

Enjoy!
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Carburetors became obsolete during the last century... do what ever it takes to get fuel injection...It makes bigger grins off road.

Last edited by Happy Joe; 05-16-2008 at 12:18 PM..
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Unread 05-16-2008, 09:57 AM   #10
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAYLWALKER View Post
All Grounding From The Battery Goes To The Block, Usually To The Bolt Just Below And Between Plug #1 And 2, My 78 I Have Relocated It The The Where The Old Coil Bracket Went But Still To The Block. On The Other Side Should Be A Ground Strap From The Block To The Frame

Hope This Helps
No, that's where the factory installed the 'Ground' wire.
As I explained in detail, that's not the 'Ideal' place for it to be...

Too may painted and rusty surfaces in-between the 'Ground' and the accessories.

When the government and military were buying AMC vehicles, they DEMANDED dedicated grounds...
AMC's in house study came up with a $6 to $9 dollar figure for dedicated grounds for all appliances.
It will cost you more now since you are adding to the harness and inflation has increased the cost of components, but about $50 isn't unreasonable to have everything work...

But since the 'Consumer' is usually a trusting idiot,
the factory 'Short Changed' the consumer by bolting the ground to the side of the engine and not adding any dedicated negative wires to any of the major groups or appliances...

Since warranty was usually 12 months back then, the vehicle only had to live through warranty period, then if you had problems, it was money in the bank for the dealership shop!

The longest warranty back then was 36 months, so if the vehicle lasted 3 years, they win.

Ground problems are usually pretty well known by mechanics, and they are cheap and easy to fix (dedicated ground wire).

If you got tired of the constant failures, you bought another vehicle, again, money in the bank for the dealerships!
----------------------------

Also, we say 'Ground', but in DC electronics, there actually isn't such a thing.

All DC circuits MUST HAVE a POSITIVE connection and a NEGATIVE connection.
There is no 'Ground' or more to the point 'Earth Ground' in the loop.

SO,
We call anything hooked to the vehicle a 'Chassis Ground', also an incorrect term, and that is what's leading people to believe you don't have to run a dedicated ground to each accessory...

If you don't want to spend the $50 or so it will take to properly supply NEGATIVE connections to your vehicle's appliances, it's perfectly OK with me!

There are lot's of perfect adequate shops out there that will be glad to chase your 'Ground' problems down for $50 an hour in shop rates!

So you be the judge for your vehicle, $50 worth of supplies now and some elbow grease,
OR,
$50 an hour in a stream of never ending trips to the shop!
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Unread 05-16-2008, 10:57 AM   #11
heath84CJ7
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Jeephammer,

If your tub and fenders are Fiberglass would you still place that Brass Post on the fender and then run a dedicatd ground to the engine and one to the Frame from there? Just curious as I will be wiring in the next couple of weeks!!

The Diagrams you have are Awesome!! Where did you get them??
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Unread 06-04-2008, 03:49 PM   #12
lacpa
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Jeephammer, those diagrams really are the king. I'm with the above poster though, if you have a fiberglass body do you still put the brass bolt on the fender? I'm going to working on the wiring this weekend and hope to have it at least mostly fixed, but after looking at your diagram I'm not sure how to run the dedicated grounds. Does that bolt ground the body, or is it mostly a central point where all the dedicated ground wires can be run?

Thanks!
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Unread 06-04-2008, 04:53 PM   #13
CJ Chet
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Nice writeup Jeephammer, BUT, there is one more I would add. From the case of the windshield wiper motor to the dash. It's amazing how much better my wipers work now. I discovered that when my windshield is folded down, the wipers wouldn't even turn on on. Found this when I was doing the WipeBoy upgrade.
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Unread 06-04-2008, 05:03 PM   #14
CopperCJ7
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[QUOTE=CJ Chet;5299671Found this when I was doing the WipeBoy upgrade.[/QUOTE]

I did that wiper upgrade too. Didn't really notice the ground issue though. Did you get the OEM style or the billet arms? The owner (Mark) of RipTech is a really nice guy too. I bought the regular arms and he sent one without the little clip in it (to keep the arm on the spindle) He sent another out to me lightning fast.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Strenk View Post
What CJ owner doesn't want to hack up his harness for the next owner to have fun with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broseph View Post
The thread will derail quicker than a walrus on a Crisco-soaked Slip 'n' Slide.
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Unread 06-04-2008, 05:11 PM   #15
SlikRic
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OK what is the wipeboy upgrade? Any doc's?
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