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Unread 12-21-2013, 09:49 PM   #1
1977redcj5
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Bad day for my 258 - Oil Pressur Gone

Hey Guys,

So I fired up my jeep up today went inside while it ran. When I came out a few minutes later there was a horrible loud tapping noise on the drivers side font of the engine. O put a stethoscope on it and it was loudest on the front of the exhaust manifold.

I checked the oil and then I looked at the oil pressure gauge and it had no reading and then I looked inside the oil fill cap and saw no oil splashing around and shut it down. I assume I should see oil splashing around inside the valve cover right?

So what are my next steps - It ran 5-6 minutes while I was inside and never got to temperature.

Should I pull the pan and if so how do I know if the oil pump is dead? I will look at the pickup screen but what else is there to do? And more importantly do I write the motor off or what? Am I looking for filings or what?

Thanks for the help

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Unread 12-22-2013, 12:23 AM   #2
Spieg8
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First off, it's never a good idea to leave a car running unattended (actually illegal in some states). Running without oil for 5 minutes has undoubtedly done some damage, but if you're lucky it may not have destroyed the motor. The ticking you hear is probably a lifter running dry.
Anyhow, what's done is done. I assume you had good pressure before and that you verified that you have oil reading on the dipstick now. Normally I'd start by verifying that the oil pressure gauge is working, but since you also have noise from the motor, I'd assume that's not the problem.
First thing I'd do is change the oil filter in case it has failed (see if a new filter restores pressure). If that doesn't help, you'll have to drop the oil pan and look inside.
You'll want to look at the pump and pump impeller shaft. It's unusual for a pump to fail suddenly but the impeller shaft could have snapped. If the shaft is broken, you'll probably find pieces in the bottom of the pan.
You'll also want to look closely at the main bearings (if you lost a bearing, you will get no oil up to the top of the motor).
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Unread 12-22-2013, 09:19 AM   #3
draperjojo
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I'd drain the oil first and check for metal.
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Unread 12-22-2013, 11:09 AM   #4
thantos858
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I ran my 304 down to a quart awhile ago. I found no metal in the pan so I just put in a few quarts and it ran fine. I had a slight tick from the top end which is from a loose bridge because of the po.
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Unread 12-22-2013, 11:14 AM   #5
1977redcj5
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Thanks Speig8 and draper.




I have had great pressure on the engine before and have had no issues with burning oil or leaking oil at all and I did check the oil when this happened and it was full.


I hadn't heard of a filter failing, but that is a great place to start.


Should I have seen oil splashing around inside of the valve cover when looking through the fill cap?


1 I will drain the oil, change the oil and filter - cross fingers and move to next step if that doesn't do it
2 What about trying to spin the pump with a drill to see if I get pressure or should I just go straight after pulling the pan.
3 when I pull the pan and look for the broken shaft or any misc chunks of metal how do I know if a main bearing went? Will it be as obvious as seeing broken pieces?
4 say I do all of the above and replace the oil pump and still have sounds is it logical the next step is to pull the head and pull lifters out?


I am comfortable doing all of this, but just haven't diagnosed enough engines as most of you guys probably have and really appreciate the
help.
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Unread 12-22-2013, 11:16 AM   #6
1977redcj5
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Thanks Thantos - Mine was right up at the full mark. When you say bridge are you talking of the pieces between the lifters?
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Unread 12-22-2013, 03:36 PM   #7
thantos858
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Originally Posted by 1977redcj5 View Post
Thanks Thantos - Mine was right up at the full mark. When you say bridge are you talking of the pieces between the lifters?
Yea thats what they are called from the parts store
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Unread 12-22-2013, 03:49 PM   #8
swatson454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1977redcj5 View Post
I hadn't heard of a filter failing, but that is a great place to start.
Those orange ones have a nasty habit of doing that, especially on a cold start. You might want to cut it open to see if that's what happened. Hopefully the engine ain't kilt.


Shawn
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Unread 12-22-2013, 04:12 PM   #9
LumpyGrits
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Bet you still have the POS, OEM electronic oil psi gauge.
NEVER TRUST THEM!
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Unread 12-22-2013, 05:21 PM   #10
1977redcj5
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I do indeed have the factory electric gauge - and it is an orange filter......you guys are good. I'm heading to the auto store now to get fresh oil and filter (WIX).


I drained all of the oil and ran it through cheese cloth - no particles at all. I can cut the filter apart when I get back.


Should I see oil sloshing under the valve cover when I look in the fill cap if the oil pump is running or is it more of a seep that high in the motor. I'm fine pulling the cover if I need to - rather do that than pulling the pan as an initial check.






Thanks for all the help guys
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Unread 12-22-2013, 05:34 PM   #11
LumpyGrits
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Wix is what NAPA sells. I buy'em buy the case. Wix was OEM for our 4.2's.
What weight oil are you run'n?
Get your new oil psi gauge here.
http://www.marshallinstruments.com/products/6933.cfm
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Unread 12-22-2013, 05:36 PM   #12
swatson454
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X2. Wix is a good filter.


Shawn
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Unread 12-22-2013, 05:44 PM   #13
Spieg8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1977redcj5 View Post
Should I see oil sloshing under the valve cover when I look in the fill cap if the oil pump is running or is it more of a seep that high in the motor. I'm fine pulling the cover if I need to - rather do that than pulling the pan as an initial check.
Don't know if "sloshing" is the word I'd use, but yes you see some oil being thrown off the rocker arms and flowing to the drainage paths.
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Unread 12-22-2013, 09:58 PM   #14
1977redcj5
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Well I put in the new filter and fresh oil 10w40 crossed my fingers and fired the engine. No oil pressure on the gauge and no oil moving under the valve cover and lots of engine noise. Not sure when I'm going to do it, but next step is to drop the pan and hope there isn't a spun bearing and it is just a bad oil pump and not too much damage. If I spun a bearing on the crank does that mean rebuilding the engine?
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Unread 12-22-2013, 11:36 PM   #15
Spieg8
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Hopefully it's just the oil pump.

It's possible to replace the main bearings with just the oil pan removed, but honestly I wouldn't do that unless there's only one particular bearing that's shot. If it's more than just one toasted bearing, it's probably time for a full engine overhaul or swap.
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