Anybody ever install new rings without removing the block? - JeepForum.com
 10Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 33 Old 09-16-2017, 05:53 AM Thread Starter
jnewsome
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 12
Anybody ever install new rings without removing the block?

I picked up a 1974 CJ5 as a project last week. It's blowing oil out from the dipstick tube and after a compression test yesterday, it needs new rings. On 5 of the cylinders, I've got between 30 to 60 psi. On one I've got absolutely nothing at all. It actually seems like the previous owner purposely bent the spark plug to keep that cylinder from firing. It's crazy that it was still running on 5 cylinders with low compression. I guess that shows these inline 6 motors are hard to kill.

My buddy and I was looking at it last night getting a game plan together. While looking, we decided that we're going to do rings without removing the block. Hopefully anyway as long as it doesn't need to be bored out. Has anyone done this and was there any problems that you ran into? The only issue we can see at the moment is a few oil pan bolts that'll be a little hard to get to. We're hoping to just remove the hood, remove the intake and exhaust manifold, head, and drop the oil pan. There's plenty of room to work inside of the engine bay and underneath. It's got the 3.8l l6 engine and honing shouldn't be bad from the top.

jnewsome is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 33 Old 09-16-2017, 06:29 AM
keith460
Jeep. There's Only One
 
keith460's Avatar
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Doylestown, PA
Posts: 7,107
I would image that could be done. Hard part is gapping the rings for each cylinder which is time consuming. Took me a couple of days with the engine out and on a stand. Leaning over into the engine bay is going to give your back a workout too.

.
1984 CJ-7 Renegade
__________________
keith460 is offline  
post #3 of 33 Old 09-16-2017, 07:23 AM
pedal2themetai
Registered User
1956 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Boise
Posts: 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnewsome View Post
It actually seems like the previous owner purposely bent the spark plug to keep that cylinder from firing.
HI I think you got more problems than rings.. Have you checked that the valves are moving? pull the valve cover and watch as the motor runs or just turns over.. Previous owner would have no reason to bend a spark plug... It most likely got hit by the piston.. I think you looking at a rebuild and maybe new pistons.. if not more.. 0 compression means hole in piston or valve stuck open even with broken rings you should get some compression.. going to be way more easier to remove the motor for this rebuild.. most likely going to need to pull the crank and have it turned or polished... if the rings are broken or anything your ARE going to need to bore the cylinders. just throwing rings into a scored block isn't going to fix a thing.
good luck
tim
pedal2themetai is offline  
 
post #4 of 33 Old 09-16-2017, 07:35 AM
bob4703
Registered User
1974 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Easley
Posts: 1,412
It has been done before, but unless you can properly measure the cylinder wear you may be tinkling in the wind. If I were doing it that way I'd take the wheels off and put it on jack stands or blocks to the lowest point I can still get my smallest jack under it. I'd also remove the fenders for better access. Now having said all that It would be just as quick to remove the engine which is no big job on the 232 or 258. Put it on an engine stand and everything is easy to get to for removal. If the rings are that bad and the bore is still good, then the bearings and everything internally that wears will need replacing.

Edit: Tim beat me to the punch and said it better.

-----

Paved roads are prime examples of government over spending!
bob4703 is offline  
post #5 of 33 Old 09-16-2017, 07:52 AM
Mortgage-payer
Registered User
1976 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Fargo
Posts: 1,283
I'm a dirty fingernails mechanical engineer and as such have been turning wrenches my whole life.

As I've gotten older, my philosophy has changed.

When I was young and poor, I'd do something like that.
Now older, I want things to last - even if that means outlasting me.

Now I'm scorched earth mechanically. Everything gets done and done right.
swatson454 and Chrisinchwk like this.

I call it a distributor, not a dizzy.
Mortgage-payer is offline  
post #6 of 33 Old 09-16-2017, 08:06 AM
Matt1981CJ7
Web Wheeler
 
Matt1981CJ7's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Elbert
Posts: 19,021
With compression that low, I doubt just replacing the rings is going to fix what ails this engine.

Matt
Chrisinchwk likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Matt1981CJ7 is offline  
post #7 of 33 Old 09-16-2017, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
jnewsome
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 12
My plan is the change the whole bottom end hopefully. We discussed pulling it and bringing it to his house which is a few counties away. I don't have the engine hoist or engine stand at my place because I live in a apartment. We've rebuilt a few engines together in the past but everyone of them has been pulled. We thought stuck valve and watched the valve train while turning it over. Everything looked good up top. We then sprayed half a can of carb cleaner in the spark plug hole with 0 compression and the piston at TDC. It leaked down as soon as it hit the rings and never held a puddle. The spark plug didn't look to be hit by anything and I don't believe that the piston could even hit it. When I replaced that plug, the dipstick blew immediately. With the plug fouled, it ran good at idle. That's why I believe that the previous owner bent the plug for the sale. He said that the engine was just gone through but he thought that it had a bad vacuum leak.
jnewsome is offline  
post #8 of 33 Old 09-16-2017, 09:25 AM
pedal2themetai
Registered User
1956 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Boise
Posts: 915
HI, if you planing on replacing the whole bottom end why would you want to fight with the bearings to hold them in while you tried to place the crank in??? don't make since... The PO said it had just been gone thru???? vacuum leak??? LOL.... anything to sell a dead jeep... best pull this motor so you can get block work done it IS going to need it... I hope you didn't pay to much for it..
good luck
tim
EDIT EDIT
if your going to have to pull the crank the transmission has to come off because it has a pilot end that goes into the crank.. Plus flywheel, clutch..
pedal2themetai is offline  
post #9 of 33 Old 09-16-2017, 10:45 AM
kovic
Registered User
1983 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Grand Rapids
Posts: 957
Its not hard, Ive done it to a chevy 350 while still in the truck. I only had to do one, but it was easy, and could have easily done all the others. the rings literally fell apart when I pulled the piston. I just honed the cylinder with a flex hone tool, put new rings on, and put her back together. Ran like a top for the next 3 yrs before I sold it. It had 200k or so when i did it. I had to do it because I kept blowing the intake gasket, and the truck had a major loss in power. Ran good as new once done!

kov
kovic is online now  
post #10 of 33 Old 09-16-2017, 12:19 PM
80cj
Web Wheeler
 
80cj's Avatar
1980 CJ5 
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 6,895
It it possible to get a cylinder hone in #6 with the engine installed?
80cj is online now  
post #11 of 33 Old 09-16-2017, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
jnewsome
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 12
Sorry I meant the whole bottom end besides the crank. The rear main doesn't leak. I was hoping to change the main bearings one at a time by rotating them around. I have changed a rod bearing before from the bottom. We polished the crank with a piece of emory cloth, installed bearing, and pulled the piston cack down. It looks like we'll be able to reach the back cylinder with the hood off with the honing tool.
jnewsome is offline  
post #12 of 33 Old 09-16-2017, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
jnewsome
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 12
I actually kinda got the Jeep for free. I had a Motorcycle stolen from me almost 6 years ago. I received a call about 3 weeks ago with its whereabouts. I picked it up and it needed full fairings, fork seals were blowed, and the engine had a whole in the block from the chain breaking. I didn't want to sink the money into it because it wouldn't be worth anymore than I would of had to. I put it up for trade and traded it for a 1984 Bronco XLT. I really didn't want the Bronco, so I traded it for the Jeep. At the moment I'm about $400 into the Jeep with a new battery, exhaust manifold, and brake shoes all the way around.
Attached Thumbnails
20170912_144942_1505598669561.jpg   20170912_144929_1505598761484.jpg  
jnewsome is offline  
post #13 of 33 Old 09-16-2017, 05:24 PM
tripmaker
Registered User
1982 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Huntsville
Posts: 608
I've done it lots of times. Both on gas and diesel. Just remember to clean after honing the cylinders top to bottom. But like the other ppl said check all of the other things first. It would suck to do a ring job and still have the same problem. Good luck
tripmaker is offline  
post #14 of 33 Old 09-16-2017, 05:26 PM
HoDad
Registered User
1981 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 75
Nice trades, continue to keep it cheap if that's what you want. I say go for it, probably turn out fine. If you run into issues, you can cross that bridge when you get to it. Good luck!
HoDad is offline  
post #15 of 33 Old 09-16-2017, 08:26 PM
80cj
Web Wheeler
 
80cj's Avatar
1980 CJ5 
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 6,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnewsome View Post
Sorry I meant the whole bottom end besides the crank. The rear main doesn't leak. I was hoping to change the main bearings one at a time by rotating them around. I have changed a rod bearing before from the bottom. We polished the crank with a piece of emory cloth, installed bearing, and pulled the piston cack down. It looks like we'll be able to reach the back cylinder with the hood off with the honing tool.
In the FSM theres a description of a method for replacing main bearings without removing the crank using a tool made from a cotter pin.
80cj is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome