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Unread 06-09-2011, 06:40 AM   #1
jetguy
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1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
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any ideas?

almost done with my engine change (new atk 258 long block, new clutch kit). I have the engine almost all the way in. engine is on the engine mounts and bolted down. bell-housing is like 1" away from mating up and 1 fastener hole off (engine needs to rotate towards driver side).

while shoving engine/ transmission around to try to slide the engine in, the shifter shifted in to 1st or 2nd gear, and now i cant get it out of gear!

I wonder if when i hammered in my crankshaft pilot bearing, it might have made the inside diameter hole smaller and now the transmission shaft cant slide in? maybe transmission splines are partially slid into clutch splines but the smooth part of the shaft wont go into the crankshaft pilot bearing?

at this point i really dont want to take the engine back out(it was a real bear getting in on the mounts). I am leaning toward pulling the transmission and try to line things up from the transmission side instead.

Any thoughts or tips?

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Unread 06-09-2011, 07:31 AM   #2
gone2hatteras
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1983 CJ7 
 
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More than likely you have a miss aligned clutch plate. If you used the plastic alignment tool it will most likely be a little bit off due to the weight of the disc resting on it as you installed the pressure plate. Don't force it together, pull the engine or transmission (your choice) and realign the disc. If you push up on the tool a little as you tighten the pressure plate bolts you should have a better alignment this is to adjust for the weight of the disc. 2nd choice would be unbolt the bell housing from the transmission and bolt it to the engine. With the clutch linkage in place have a helper depress the clutch as you push(shake) the transmission into place. You may have to drop the transfer case to do this or you may not, again your choice. With a little luck this should allow the engine and transmission to align and you can bolt them together.
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Unread 06-09-2011, 08:12 AM   #3
BioTex
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I agree with what hatteras suggest about the clutch alignment tool. Did you use one?

Are you sure you have the correct pilot bearing I.D. (did you mike it)?

I have found it easier to remove the grill/radiator and install the engine/tranny already bolted together, but it is what it is, so you should get the clutch alignment tool out, and reset the clutch/pressureplate mate as suggested.
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Unread 06-09-2011, 09:11 AM   #4
jetguy
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Yeah, I used the plastic tool, but it did not fit well in the pilot bushing. So I kind of jammed/twisted it in the pilot bushing to remove some of the plastic, so it would fit.
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Unread 06-09-2011, 01:08 PM   #5
jetguy
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Sounds like I will be pulling the t case and tranny :-( my body is battered after 6 days of engine bay overhual. Hope I get it right this next time.
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Unread 06-10-2011, 06:51 PM   #6
jetguy
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I have been seaching around on here, and it sounds like a lot of people are having a simalar problem with new clutch kits, of not getting the output shaft the last 3/4" or so in the pilot bushing. Some have suggested straping a ratcheting strap from the front to rear axel and slowly wiggle the tranny to slip it in. Along the same lines I have read , if you can get the bellhousing bolts starged and slowly tighten down with an X pattern, this will get the output shaft into the pilot bushing.
Thoughts?
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Unread 06-10-2011, 07:13 PM   #7
crazy8x4o5
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I had a similar problem and it turned out I mashed the pilot bushing a little, it doesnt take much, if the aligning tool is off cetner even a little the splines will not line up.. also did you take the top plate off the tranny? when you put it back on it could be you didnt get the forks lined up right. I've done that one too lol
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Unread 06-10-2011, 07:22 PM   #8
hp_lovecraft
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Quote:
Along the same lines I have read , if you can get the bellhousing bolts starged and slowly tighten down with an X pattern, this will get the output shaft into the pilot bushing.
This was the method I used. But I've also read many horror stories. There is a reason that its not sliding right in. Tightening the bolts that way puts a great deal of force onto parts not designed for it... something will give.. or break.

As far as not coming out of gear? doesnt sound too odd. Maybe just some pressure on the gears.
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Unread 06-10-2011, 07:31 PM   #9
jetguy
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never took the top plate off.
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Unread 06-12-2011, 10:46 AM   #10
jetguy
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found this

"I bet i know where the reistance came from on trans install.

I have been instaling muncies in gm mscule cars for 36+ yrs now and over the last like 5 yrs i have had problems will any/all of the stock bronze pilot bushings that are sold in all auto parts stores in my area & one i got from summitt/jegs too.

It seems like over the yrs the mfg/s of the bronze bushings have slipped on the mfg specs and are making them smiudge too large in outter daimeter.

Case in point,i have owned my 69 396 since 1978 and have had the motor out mult times over the yrs. I replaced the pilot bushing each time the motor or trans was out with not problems untill like 5 yrs ago,that when the problems started for me with the bronze pilot bushing sold today.

I tried approx 5-7 different stock bronze bushings from local parts stores & summitt/jegs and not one of then fit in the crank correctly,would go in easily just being slightly snug,i had to use a std nailing hammer hitting very hard and peice of wood to get any of them to go into the SAME CRANK they used to fit just fine in yrs before that.

Mind you this is the same carnk where thoses same type bushing fit fine in prior yrs going in snug but not that tight.

These new bushings seem to be too lrg on overall diameter and are very nug when installed.

The new bushings slid over the end of the input shaft on my trans and clutch aln tool fine before they were installed in the crank.

But with the bronze being a softer metal what happends is when you have to force it into the crank the soft metal squeezes the inner input shaft hole a little smaller and thats why the trans had problems going in the last 1/2,i had the same problem and thats when i figured this out.

When my trans would not goin the last 1/2 inch i pulled it out and tried to insert the same aln tool where the bushing fit over it just fine prior to install it and now ithe aln tool would not fit in the bushing and thats when i realized what was happening because the bushing required a lot of force to install and closed the inner hole some when installed.

Again,all 5-7 of these bushings i bought from different source all did the same thing and the pilot bushing seating area in the crank of my motor was never worked on and was in good cond not scored,etc. I tried all of them and found each bushing went in the crank hard squeezing the hole smaller so aln tool would not fit even though all the same bushings slid fine over aln tool & trans input shaft prior to installing each bushing in the crank.

You can either have the outer diameter of the bushing reduced by 1-2 thousands to goin a little easier or have the inner diameter enlaged.

I took a dremel with a small grinder to the inside diameter of the bushing untill the end of the clutch aln tool fit ok then i installed the trans with no problems.

Keep in mind since you forced the input shaft of your trans into the pilot bushing the trans might not shift well . This is because the cluth may not disengauge fully with the pilot bushing grabbing it soo hard untill the trans input shaft wears in inner hole of the new pilot bushing.

A few of the people i know locally have had the same problems with the stock bronze pilot bushing sold in stores today,anyone esle has this happen to them?"
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Unread 06-12-2011, 01:18 PM   #11
jetguy
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to correct my situation, i will have to (1)drop the axle (2)drop the t-case, (3) drop the t-4 and bellhousing, (4)loosen and remove pressure plate, (5) at this point i might decide to just ream out the ID. of the pilot bushing, or remove pilot bearing and install a new one that i may have to reduce outside dia. so it fits into the crank easier, thus not crushing/reducing the pilot bushing's ID.
OR
I can remove the engine again and work it from that side. nothing is hooked up to the engine besides the engine mounts at this point. the only thing is i am by myself and i am not sure i could handle the engine by myself. i think i could pull it again by myself, but im not real sure about getting it back in myself.

what do you think would be easier for me?
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Unread 06-12-2011, 02:40 PM   #12
mopar408
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Stoopid question but did you test-fit the installed pilot bushing onto the tranny input shaft to see if it fit onto shaft before installation, That'd tell you if bushing was wrong I.D. as opposed to maybe 1 edge maybe gotten damaged stabbing the tranny. Same w/ clutch disc: it DID actually go up and down splines ok?
I think i'd pull the top cover off and see, if nothing else it'll be easier to r and r the tranny. Also you should be able to get the bushing out w/ the ol' " grease in the crank hole +bolt and hammer trick." and not have to pull the motor.
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Unread 06-12-2011, 03:52 PM   #13
jetguy
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yeah, i slid the pilot bushing on the input shaft first. i did not slide the clutch disk on the input shaft though.
whats the top cover? the plate around the shifter on the floor in the cab?
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Unread 06-12-2011, 04:10 PM   #14
mopar408
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whats the top cover? the plate around the shifter on the floor in the cab?


I better stop here and defer to someone familiar w/ your specific tranny, but mine and probably a majority of different CJ.s use a tranny called a "toploader" that has a cover bolted on top where the shifter is. The cover typically has 6-10 bolts that can be removed and the whole shifter, shift dogs, etc just lifts off.
You're looking at the internal gears. My T-15's like that but I don't know what you have and yours may NOT be made that way. Again, I defer to others that are familiar with type tranny you have.
We are NOT speaking of the sheetmetal plate on the floor tub.
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Unread 06-12-2011, 04:41 PM   #15
jetguy
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ok, gottcha, my t4 is built like this also. i still dont quite understand how taking off the topcover would allow me to see whats going on in the bellhousing.
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