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Unread 01-14-2014, 03:07 PM   #46
UBERK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swatson454 View Post
Based on your cylinder size and the valve area available to feed it, I came up with 50 degrees of overlap and required 106 LSA which, mathematically, leaves you at 262 degrees of duration. That may give you a little bit of a rumble under the hood but the torque would be insane.

If that isn't what you're looking for, you can always just widen the LSA out a little. Going from a 106 out to 110 or 112 will knock a good 45 ft/lbs off the torque and make it idle smooth as a baby's butt but you'll sure be able to feel the reduced power and throttle response.
This is all a little out of my realm of knowledge and the link you posted is blocked at work...so I cant get to it, but it seem like the Lunati falls right in the middle of those two descriptions..?

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Unread 01-14-2014, 03:09 PM   #47
Matt1981CJ7
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Dang, I just missed the Vizard seminar by only 3 years.

Shawn, do you think the advertised of 1600-5800 RPM range of the cam the OP is considering is a little high for a Jeep engine? I ask because I know I do a lot of crawling around at under 1600 RPM.

Matt
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Unread 01-14-2014, 03:29 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7
Dang, I just missed the Vizard seminar by only 3 years.

Shawn, do you think the advertised of 1600-5800 RPM range of the cam the OP is considering is a little high for a Jeep engine? I ask because I know I do a lot of crawling around at under 1600 RPM.

Matt
He usually does one, maybe two a year. I caught up with him in Sept. 2011.

I agree with what you're saying and that's a higher range than I try to spec for, unless requested, but that range is very likely based off of a Chevy 350. You're probably pretty safe knocking three or maybe even four hundred rpm off of it since it's going in a larger engine.

If you want to spec a cam for a 401 based off the description, find the one that sounds about right and order the next larger cam. That's not perfect but it helps if that's what you're going by.


Shawn
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Unread 01-14-2014, 03:39 PM   #49
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Matt you make a point about the operating range on the Voodoo cam. Honestly this CJ will be primarily a DD-Trailer Queen and only see mild trail duty...just a few times a year. Im even considering a regear back to 4:10 and getting rid of the 4:56's...

Here's the specs on the two diff Lunati cams:

Hydraulic Flat Tappet Cam. Factory replacement cam. Good off road, towing and economy cam. Smooth idle.

•Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 260/260
•Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 210/210
•Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .470/.470
•LSA/ICL: 110/106
•Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
•RPM Range: 1000-4800

OR...

Hydraulic Flat Tappet Cam. Torque monster for 390-401 c.i. daily driven street performance vehicle. Good torque and horsepower production with heavier emphasis on the low to mid range. Will work with A/C, power brakes and stock converter. Noticeable idle!

•Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 262/268
•Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 220/226
•Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .507/.527
•LSA/ICL: 112/108
•Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
•RPM Range: 1600-5800
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Unread 01-14-2014, 03:49 PM   #50
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Based on my positive experience with the Lunati 250/256 cam in my 360, this is the cam I'd probably choose for a 401.

Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 256/262
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 213/220
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .484/.507
LSA/ICL: 112/108
Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
RPM Range: 1200-5500

Then again, I like my CJ to idle like a kitten on cat-nip. I can literally stick a glass of wine on the top of my breather, at idle, and it will sit there with hardly a ripple in the wine.

Matt
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Unread 01-14-2014, 04:07 PM   #51
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Congrats to Harold for actually specifying an engine size. I suppose that's why he's one of the most well-respected cam designers in the country.

What's your compression going to be? Wanna run 87 octane? Just an enjoyable mall-crawler?


Shawn
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Unread 01-14-2014, 04:10 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
Then again, I like my CJ to idle like a kitten on cat-nip. I can literally stick a glass of wine on the top of my breather, at idle, and it will sit there with hardly a ripple in the wine.
Matt
That settles it, Im going with the 262/268 then....final answer.

both Matt and Shawn
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Unread 01-14-2014, 04:11 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by swatson454 View Post
What's your compression going to be? Wanna run 87 octane? Just an enjoyable mall-crawler?
Shawn
Im thinking around 9:1....just dont want to HAVE to run 91...
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Unread 01-14-2014, 04:31 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UBERK

Im thinking around 9:1....just dont want to HAVE to run 91...
I thought that may be the case. Based on that alone, I'd shy away from the 262/268 cam. You simply don't have the static compression needed to tolerate the later closing of the intake valve.

If it were me and given your intended usage, I'd be looking at a cam right around 260/214 or so and ground on a 108 LSA. You'll have to go custom to find it but I happen to have some lobe numbers in front of me if you're interested


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Unread 01-14-2014, 04:37 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by swatson454 View Post
I thought that may be the case. Based on that alone, I'd shy away from the 262/268 cam. You simply don't have the static compression needed to tolerate the later closing of the intake valve.

If it were me and given your intended usage, I'd be looking at a cam right around 260/214 or so and ground on a 108 LSA. You'll have to go custom to find it but I happen to have some lobe numbers in front of me if you're interested


Shawn
Im absolutely interested....I just want to do this right the first time.....
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Unread 01-14-2014, 05:08 PM   #56
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I would call Bullet Cams and tell them what you've got and that you're looking at these lobes:

H262/300 on the intake
H271/267 -3 (minus three) on the exhaust
108 LSA +4

What I'm trying to do here is give you the duration you need to reach your goals (without being excessive) but moving the intake closing point to a position that's more-favorable to a 9:1 compression engine. These lobes are also a little more gentle than the Extreme Energy or Voodoo profiles.

The exhaust is symmetrical, which is what we want, but it's a hair too wide. That's why I said "minus 3". Luckily, they grind each cam as a custom and can even modify individual lobes. It's got quite a bit less lift but that should help improve your torque down low and do a little better on mileage.

See what they have to say but that should be a marked improvement in torque and throttle response over the shelf grinds that have been previously discussed.

Hope it helps.


Shawn

Edit: I suppose this might be helpful for reference. 262/214/.480 intake and 268/215/.427 exhaust
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Unread 01-15-2014, 08:05 AM   #57
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I was kind of chuckling earlier about this thread because it's so common, even on performance forums.

Guy says "I need a cam" and lays out his rpm range and vehicle specs.

Gets 5 or 6 completely different recommendations from members.

Calls Comp, Lunati, Bullet, Jones etc and gets 4 more different recommendations (usually a little closer together).

Finally puts them all in a hat and has his 3 year old daughter pick one


Shawn
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Unread 01-15-2014, 10:30 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swatson454 View Post
I was kind of chuckling earlier about this thread because it's so common, even on performance forums.

Guy says "I need a cam" and lays out his rpm range and vehicle specs.

Gets 5 or 6 completely different recommendations from members.

Calls Comp, Lunati, Bullet, Jones etc and gets 4 more different recommendations (usually a little closer together).

Finally puts them all in a hat and has his 3 year old daughter pick one

Shawn
Or you can pick a can like I did. Found a brand new comp cams kit for 1/2 price on craigslist lol! I got lucky that it was one of the three cams I was looking at

Ben
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Unread 01-15-2014, 05:12 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swatson454 View Post
I would call Bullet Cams and tell them what you've got....
Heres what I got back from them today:

THAT GRIND SHOULD WORK WELL
214/216 @ .050
LIFT .480/.427
LSA 108
INT C/L 104

THANKS RICHARD


Quote:
Originally Posted by swatson454 View Post
I was kind of chuckling earlier about this thread because it's so common, even on performance forums.
Guy says "I need a cam" and lays out his rpm range and vehicle specs.
Gets 5 or 6 completely different recommendations from members.
Calls Comp, Lunati, Bullet, Jones etc and gets 4 more different recommendations (usually a little closer together).
Finally puts them all in a hat and has his 3 year old daughter pick one
Shawn
Agreed. Ive asked and lurked on a few diff forums and that is soo true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benullman View Post
Or you can pick a can like I did. Found a brand new comp cams kit for 1/2 price on craigslist lol! I got lucky that it was one of the three cams I was looking at
Ben
Definately a lucky find there. Im always cruising CL for that diamond in the rough.....
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Unread 01-15-2014, 05:23 PM   #60
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Did you mention the "minus 3" part on the exhaust lobe?



Shawn
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