AMC 20 pinion seal. - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 19 Old 08-19-2017, 09:41 AM Thread Starter
kovic
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AMC 20 pinion seal.

OK, I put this in my rebuild thread, but this is a topic that I think needs its own.

In short, got started on my axles today, and first went after the rear pinion seal. I removed it. Then read that I was supposed to mark stuff, and take a pre torque reading, the yoke turned with a touch of the finger, so that wouldnt have helped me.

Also, the seal seemed ok, most of the gear oil seemed to be at the nut, and along the splines , is that normal?

I think the yoke is ok, where it rode the seal there is a very small lip and its visible, is that normal?

Should I just try and get a new seal and rtv the splines and get the nut pretty tight? It came of fairly easy.

I have the axle out and on saw horses.

Thanks!

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post #2 of 19 Old 08-19-2017, 05:08 PM
Rtracy2001
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I can't tell where the seal rides from the picture, but if you can feel any roughness, grooves, or unevenness, then invest in a repair sleeve or a new yoke.

As far as putting it back together, step 1 is to clean everything, yoke, pinion splines, case, etc. Pull out the pinion bearing if you can and clean it up too (if it doesn't come out easily, don't worry about it). Once everything is clean, lube the pinion bearing per manufacturer's specifications. You will also lube any spacers, washers, or whatever else came out.

You will need to set pinion bearing preload to spec because you didn't measure before pulling everything apart. This usually means the axles have to be out of the housing and, IIRC, the carrier should be removed too. Nothing but the pinion in the case. (Don't worry too much, if you put everything back in just the way it came out, then your gear setup won't change.)

Install the new seal and apply RTV to the pinion splines, just enough to cover them in a light coat.

Slide the yoke onto the splines, lube both sides of the washer and the pinion threads, motor oil will do.

Holding the yoke with either the special tool or a big pipe wrench, tighten the pinion nut until you see the first pinion thread come through the nut.

Remove the holder and using an inch-lb torque wrench, measure the torque required to rotate the pinion. Keep alternating between tightening the nut and measuring the torque until it takes 6-8 inch-lbs (used bearing preload spec) to rotate the pinion. (For all new bearings an crush sleeve, the preload is- 14-19 inch-lbs.)

It is a bit tedious, but the hardest part is finding an inch-lb torque wrench.

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post #3 of 19 Old 08-19-2017, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
kovic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtracy2001 View Post
I can't tell where the seal rides from the picture, but if you can feel any roughness, grooves, or unevenness, then invest in a repair sleeve or a new yoke.

As far as putting it back together, step 1 is to clean everything, yoke, pinion splines, case, etc. Pull out the pinion bearing if you can and clean it up too (if it doesn't come out easily, don't worry about it). Once everything is clean, lube the pinion bearing per manufacturer's specifications. You will also lube any spacers, washers, or whatever else came out.

You will need to set pinion bearing preload to spec because you didn't measure before pulling everything apart. This usually means the axles have to be out of the housing and, IIRC, the carrier should be removed too. Nothing but the pinion in the case. (Don't worry too much, if you put everything back in just the way it came out, then your gear setup won't change.)

Install the new seal and apply RTV to the pinion splines, just enough to cover them in a light coat.

Slide the yoke onto the splines, lube both sides of the washer and the pinion threads, motor oil will do.

Holding the yoke with either the special tool or a big pipe wrench, tighten the pinion nut until you see the first pinion thread come through the nut.

Remove the holder and using an inch-lb torque wrench, measure the torque required to rotate the pinion. Keep alternating between tightening the nut and measuring the torque until it takes 6-8 inch-lbs (used bearing preload spec) to rotate the pinion. (For all new bearings an crush sleeve, the preload is- 14-19 inch-lbs.)

It is a bit tedious, but the hardest part is finding an inch-lb torque wrench.
Well, the axles are out, and the housing is on sawhorses. I also do plan on removing the carrier in order to clean out the axle tubes. So access is not an issue.

I am a little confused tho, if the carrier is out, wont the pinion just free spin, I mean with the axles out I could spin it all with very little pressure. I feel like it wouldnt even take 6-8 inch lbs to make it spin. And how would only torquing a new crush sleeve to 14-19 inch lbs make it crush, I read somewhere that some crush sleeves take 300 to crush.

Also, should the outer bearing just come off? It seems sturdy, do I pry it?

Thanks for the response!

kov
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post #4 of 19 Old 08-20-2017, 01:38 AM
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When you torque a pinion bearing, the inch lb. spec is the pinion rotational effort measured with an inch lb. torque wrench. Do a search on the forum. There are numerous posts regarding replacement procedure for pinion seals. Most of all, get yourself a copy of the factory service manual for your Jeep.
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post #5 of 19 Old 08-20-2017, 08:47 AM Thread Starter
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Yea, I misplaced my factory service manual, searching for it! Also I have searched, but usually its mark this, mark that information. Unfortunately i jumped the gun and pulled the nut off without marking anything! The outer bearing has not moved, so IM thinking i might be able to snug the bolt back up nice and tight and be good, the shaft turns the same as before I took the yoke off.

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post #6 of 19 Old 08-20-2017, 09:51 AM
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Cj

GOOGLE up 'speedy sleeve' for the worn area on the yoke.
http://www.skf.com/us/products/seals...eve/index.html
They work very well.
Since you failed to mark the pinion and the nut. You're gonna have to pull the axles now and go to rotational torque to set the preload.
LG

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post #7 of 19 Old 08-20-2017, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LumpyGrits View Post
GOOGLE up 'speedy sleeve' for the worn area on the yoke.
http://www.skf.com/us/products/seals...eve/index.html
They work very well.
Since you failed to mark the pinion and the nut. You're gonna have to pull the axles now and go to rotational torque to set the preload.
LG
Awesome, thanks for the link Lumpy. As mentioned, the axles are out and the housing is on sawhorses, so thats easy. Does the carrier need to be out as mentioned before? That would affect the rotational torque I would think.

Thanks!

kov
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post #8 of 19 Old 08-20-2017, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
kovic
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Also, at this point, with the housing and everything up on sawhorses, should I just take the carrier out, going to anyways to clean the tubes, and hammer the pinion thru and out, and then just get new bearings and crush sleeve? Im assuming that with the nut off, and carrier out that it should just come out right?

Replace the bearings and crush sleeve, and then put housing back in?

kov
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post #9 of 19 Old 08-20-2017, 02:28 PM
LumpyGrits
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Cj

Pull the carrier and oil the bearings when checking rotational torque/drag.
Put the sleeve on with red locktite.
LG

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post #10 of 19 Old 08-20-2017, 04:46 PM
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If you change the bearings and install a new crush tube, you may end up changing the pinion depth. Which you don't want to do. I know that high mileage rearends indicate very little if any rotational torque when you try to get a reading with a torque wrench. The manuals say that when replacing a seal, allow 5 in. lbs. rotating torque for drag on the yoke from the new seal. If I was in you situation, and using the original bearings (which I assume are in good shape) I would look at around 8 or so in. lbs. after installing the new seal. Those are my thoughts.
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post #11 of 19 Old 08-20-2017, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovic View Post
I am a little confused tho, if the carrier is out, wont the pinion just free spin, I mean with the axles out I could spin it all with very little pressure. I feel like it wouldnt even take 6-8 inch lbs to make it spin. And how would only torquing a new crush sleeve to 14-19 inch lbs make it crush, I read somewhere that some crush sleeves take 300 to crush.

Also, should the outer bearing just come off? It seems sturdy, do I pry it?
The 6-8 inch-lbs is the torque to rotate just the pinion, not the torque to tighten the pinion nut. To tighten the pinion nut itself you must hold the yoke and pinion stationary with a holding tool or a big pipe wrench and torque the nut with a large socket. 250-300 ft-lbs is not out of line for the actual torque on the pinion nut, but that isn't the important measurement in this case.

If the front pinion bearing doesn't slide off the pinion easily, just leave it. If you drive out the pinion and/or replace any of the bearings you will need to do a complete setup on the differential and that is a royal pain.

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post #12 of 19 Old 08-22-2017, 05:55 AM
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Lotta work to change out a pinion seal. Yea, that is how you are supposed to do it. Interesting that when I got a new pinion yoke from Tom Woods, the instructions said to use a new nut and just torque it to 250 ft-lbs. That is what I did. So far, so good. He knows his stuff, right? Just trying to find an old style 1/4" torque wrench that reads below 10 in-lbs is tough.

And, yes RTV the spline, but also RTV the outside of the seal before you pound it back in, mine leaked there.

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post #13 of 19 Old 08-22-2017, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj7ole View Post
Lotta work to change out a pinion seal. Yea, that is how you are supposed to do it. Interesting that when I got a new pinion yoke from Tom Woods, the instructions said to use a new nut and just torque it to 250 ft-lbs. That is what I did. So far, so good. He knows his stuff, right? Just trying to find an old style 1/4" torque wrench that reads below 10 in-lbs is tough.
On an axle like a Dana 44 you can torque the nut down to a specified torque because it doesn't use a crush sleeve. On an AMC 20, you would risk crushing the sleeve further. There are some brands of in. lb. torque wrenches that will allow low torque readings. I believe CDI and Snap On make models that have a dial indicator type movement that go to a few in. lbs.
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post #14 of 19 Old 08-22-2017, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the info guys! Dial in . lbs are way to expensive for the use. I am going to pick up a beam style. If this was a weekly thing, id do a dial, but I will be fine with beam, waaaay cheaper, and ive seen it done a few times with beam.

kov
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post #15 of 19 Old 08-22-2017, 05:14 PM
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Well-stocked bicycle shops, local and on-line,
can be a good source of beam-type torque wrenches.
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