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Unread 09-10-2013, 07:47 PM   #31
Ken4444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LumpyGrits View Post
As per the FSM, MR-252 it's 250 FT/LB torque, then align for the cotter pin.
DO NOT LOOSEN, tighten only for the c'pin.
LG
What do you do if the thing has been tightened to 250 ft/lb but you can't get the cotter pin in? If you keep tightening the nut, doesn't that exceed the 250 limit? I've always wondered about that.

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Unread 09-10-2013, 09:57 PM   #32
CJ7KAHUNA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
Lumpy,

With all due respect, do you actually know for sure who "dreamed up" the 2-piece design, or is that just your theory?

Also, would you agree that larger tires and lower gears than what the axles are designed for has contributed to their bad rap?

Matt
Well there's this from this zthread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by humantractors
Yes it was AMC who came up with the idea. Amc was trying to save money and keep their company afloat. It's easy to research and documented.
The notion that AMC went with the 2pc design as a cost saving measure is pretty common.

I can say from experience that the 2pc design can and will fail. My very first vehicle when I was 15 years old was a 76 CJ5 with a 304. I had 31" tires on that jeep and I spun an axle 3 times over the 4 year duration that jeep was in our family. Fortunately my brother inlaw at the time was s diesel mechanic that loved to use my jeep so I got the mech work for free. Of course at that age I was pretty rough off road but we are talking about mud and rough terrain - nothing like what folks are putting jeeps through these days (rock climbing).

I have a very small budget for my jeep but I prioritized money for Moser's. Its something I've wanted to do for a while. Now that I am running 35's I consider them a necessity.
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Unread 09-11-2013, 04:23 AM   #33
keith460
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I had spun a hub on my drivers side at some point in time and never knew it. It spun, and then fused itself onto the axle and never came off or out of balance. It wasn't until I started my rebuild of the Jeep that when it came time for the axles, I couldn't get the rear drivers hub off even with the hub puller tool I own. So, out came the 4 bolts that hold the backing plate to the axle tube and was able to pull the assemble out.



Now we needed to separate the axle from the backing plate and the only way to do that was to snip out the cage of the tapered roller bearings.







Once the bearing was out of the way, the axle could be separated from the backing plate.



I tried pressing the hub off on my 12ton shop press but no go. Had to take it to work and use our 50ton press and even that was hard but it came off with a bang. Axle and hub were ruined so I had to buy a new 2 piece axle for the passenger side. Yeah, that's right, NEW 2 PIECE AXLE. The design is fine with me for what I do with my CJ now and I also contribute the failure due to large tires and in proper gearing to match. I had 33x12.50 with 3.31 gears.



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Unread 09-11-2013, 06:35 AM   #34
Matt1981CJ7
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Hey Keith,

Was the roller bearing exposed like that due to the hub spinning, or is that how they look once you pull the seal off?

Thanks,

Matt
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Unread 09-11-2013, 08:10 AM   #35
hp_lovecraft
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ7KAHUNA View Post
The notion that AMC went with the 2pc design as a cost saving measure is pretty common.
All my jeep books say the reason was it allowed AMC to mass produce the hubs to fit all vehicles, then only had to make the shaft specific to each vehicle width, saving money.

The larger Jeeps used 1pc axles, but the CJ, SJ, and most of the cars were 2pc AMC20s.

Not that the 1pc will be problem free. I blew a bearing last year, and ended up changing all 3 seals as well. Fun! You get very familiar with your drum brakes as well... I discovered why my parking brake never worked, so that got fixed
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Unread 09-11-2013, 09:16 AM   #36
LumpyGrits
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken4444 View Post
What do you do if the thing has been tightened to 250 ft/lb but you can't get the cotter pin in? If you keep tightening the nut, doesn't that exceed the 250 limit? I've always wondered about that.
You continue to tighten the nut till the pin lines up. Think of the 250 ft/lbs as a min. torque.
LG
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Unread 09-11-2013, 10:04 AM   #37
keith460
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That's how they look once you pull the axle out after removing the 4 bolts on the axle flange. If you wanted to just change the "inner" seal, you could do it this way without the hub puller but you must disconnect the brake line and E-brake cable to pull it out with the backing plate attached.

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Unread 10-17-2013, 01:09 PM   #38
glasybarel
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My hub puller arrived today, but I'm wondering what are the merits of one-piece axles over the original two-piece axles? I had only intended to replace leaking inner seals in my AMC 20...
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Unread 10-17-2013, 02:39 PM   #39
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2 piece a***************************** es

i ruined mine trying to get it apart, 30 ton hydrolic press and some heat, nothing so i scrapped them both and never looked back. i bought a rear with one piece axles used so i have axles from the 2 piece set-up sitting in corner pm me if your interested
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Unread 10-17-2013, 05:00 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by glasybarel View Post
My hub puller arrived today, but I'm wondering what are the merits of one-piece axles over the original two-piece axles?
Much, much stronger. Easier to replace bearings when needed.
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Unread 10-18-2013, 08:10 AM   #41
glasybarel
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Thanks for the info. I spent some time looking at once-piece axles last night. New question - how can I tell whether my rear axle is a wide or narrow track model? Is there any way of doing that before I pull the axle out?
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Unread 10-18-2013, 09:20 AM   #42
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Measure your entire rear axle from end to end. 82 should be Widetrac if your rear axle is stock.
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Unread 10-18-2013, 09:32 AM   #43
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I don't know how bad the design is, I had an amc 360 with super swampers on my cj7 and broke pretty much everything else in the drivetrain (2 transmissions, u-joint straps, snapped the leaf springs due to axle wrap) and the 2 piece axles were fine. I don't think you'd really have to worry unless you had a locker with a lot of traction and were trying to move the whole Jeep with just one tire. Even then you'd have to beat on it.

I had to have the axle separated by a shop when I was changing a bearing and I remember they needed a 25 ton press to do it. I ended up having to get the axle turned because the bearing had welded itself to the axle shaft. I proactively replaced the other one.
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Unread 10-18-2013, 01:57 PM   #44
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They were hit or miss. I had a buddy with 35x15.50's and a 351 running 2 piece axles and he never spun one. I spun 3 running 31's, no lockers, and 3.31 gears. He was MUCH harder on his Jeep than I.

I haven't had any problems out of the 2 piece axles in the green jeep (2.73's with 31x10.50's) but if/when I do I have a set of 1 piece axles in the shop to go in. Not going to do it till the old ones break or I get around to putting in the truetrac (have to pull the axles to do that, so might as well put in the 1 piece then)
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