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Unread 09-10-2013, 04:02 PM   #16
Matt1981CJ7
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Lumpy,

With all due respect, do you actually know for sure who "dreamed up" the 2-piece design, or is that just your theory?

Also, would you agree that larger tires and lower gears than what the axles are designed for has contributed to their bad rap?

Matt

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Unread 09-10-2013, 04:45 PM   #17
LumpyGrits
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Matt, I have no clue of the knot head that came up with the 'idea'.
From a structural/mechanical point of view, it is a very weak design.
Jeep CJ's were built for off-road and the stress that comes with such.
The AMC, 2 piece axle is a piss-pour design from any point of view.
Best to you,
LG
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Unread 09-10-2013, 04:55 PM   #18
hmantractors
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Axles

Yes it was AMC who came up with the idea. Amc was trying to save money and keep their company afloat. It's easy to research and documented. If the hubs are torqued correctly, is no corrosion, I do not think 33's will spin the axle in the hub. It took my 30 ton press to get them off. And yes if you heat cherry red you have ruined the heat treatment of the axle. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.
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Unread 09-10-2013, 04:56 PM   #19
Matt1981CJ7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LumpyGrits View Post
Matt, I have no clue of the knot head that came up with the 'idea'.
Well, that's contrary to your previous post. Thanks for being honest.



Matt
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Unread 09-10-2013, 05:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
Yeah, I'm starting to wonder if the bad rap that the 2-piece axles have is due more to guys running tires that are way too large, and gearing that is way to low, than it is due to a bad axle design.

This mod seems like more trouble than it's worth for my purposes.

Matt
I think a lot of the problems with them are people not re-torquing the nut. I used a 3/4 breaker bar and a piece of pipe about 5' long on it. I literally stood on the end of the pipe, held the windshield frame for balance, and jumped on it until it wouldn't go any more.
A few weeks later I did that again. It probably turned 1/4 turn or so. A few more weeks, it turned a little less.
Don't know how many times I re-tightened them over the next month or two.4-5?? Did it until I felt there was no possible way to get to the next notch on the castle nut. Checked it a few times after that, after a hard day of wheeling.
I run 35's, and play in the rocks a lot. I did upgrade to one piece Mosers when I installed the rear locker though for peace of mind.
Always had it in the back of my head that one day they would strip the splines.
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Unread 09-10-2013, 05:19 PM   #21
Matt1981CJ7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmantractors View Post
If the hubs are torqued correctly, is no corrosion, I do not think 33's will spin the axle in the hub. It took my 30 ton press to get them off.
That was kinda my point.

My "theory" is the vast majority of AMC 20 failures are due to guys running 35" or larger rubber, with gears to match, and then putting their rigs in extreme conditions. The axles simply weren't designed to handle those kinda forces.

I've owned and driven a CJ for over 35 years. While I've never beaten on my rigs like some do, I haven't exactly babied them either. In all that time, I've only had to replace the inner seal on one side of my AMC 20, once. I have to say the factory axles have been one of the most trouble free parts on my CJs.

Anyway, those are my experiences and my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

Matt
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Unread 09-10-2013, 05:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
Well, that's contrary to your previous post. Thanks for being honest.



Matt
How so?
I have always said it was a crap set up and YES 33's can spin'em.
LG
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Unread 09-10-2013, 05:32 PM   #23
LumpyGrits
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skizriz View Post
I think a lot of the problems with them are people not re-torquing the nut. I used a 3/4 breaker bar and a piece of pipe about 5' long on it. I literally stood on the end of the pipe, held the windshield frame for balance, and jumped on it until it wouldn't go any more.
A few weeks later I did that again. It probably turned 1/4 turn or so. A few more weeks, it turned a little less.
Don't know how many times I re-tightened them over the next month or two.4-5?? Did it until I felt there was no possible way to get to the next notch on the castle nut. Checked it a few times after that, after a hard day of wheeling.
I run 35's, and play in the rocks a lot. I did upgrade to one piece Mosers when I installed the rear locker though for peace of mind.
Always had it in the back of my head that one day they would strip the splines.
Hope you weren't on the driver's side
LG
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Unread 09-10-2013, 05:34 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LumpyGrits View Post
Hope you weren't on the driver's side
LG
The driver's side was the tricky one. I'm no acrobat, that's for sure.

The stories of people with stock tires, pulling out of their driveway and spinning a hub, made me too paranoid to keep mine. I carry enough tools and spare parts to take care of just about any problem along the road and trail, but an axle or bearing problem would leave me dead in the water.
The locker beings able to put 100% of the torque to one axle seemed like the two piece axles would be living on borrowed time.
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Unread 09-10-2013, 05:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LumpyGrits View Post
The POS, 2-piece was dreamed up by AMC's 'bean-counters" and they had the last word. LG
Quote:
Originally Posted by LumpyGrits View Post
Matt, I have no clue of the knot head that came up with the 'idea'. LG
How so? Those two statements seem kinda contrary don't they?

Look, it's not worth a pi$$ing match over. You have your opinion, I have mine. That's what makes this a beautiful world.

Perhaps in the next 35 years my AMC 20 will fail, and I'll have a different opinion.

Matt
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Unread 09-10-2013, 05:38 PM   #26
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Facts are stubborn things
Theories, are like smoke........
Carry on,
LG
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Unread 09-10-2013, 05:51 PM   #27
hmantractors
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Axles

A cheater pipe is not quite the proper way to torque the axle nuts. No one has mentioned that the proper torque is 200 foot pounds. Tighten nut tighter if needed to get the cotter key in the castle nut. And yes it would be prudent to retorque the nut after say 200 miles.
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Unread 09-10-2013, 06:01 PM   #28
bobert0670
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Hmmmm how do I know if it has spun? Sorry I'm a noob to messing with axles, except on my kids bikes, but I think they might be a bit different.
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Unread 09-10-2013, 06:04 PM   #29
Matt1981CJ7
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Quote:
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Facts are stubborn things

LG
LOL! Yes they are. I think we've both proven that, but little else.

I like your style, Lumpy.

Matt
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Unread 09-10-2013, 06:20 PM   #30
LumpyGrits
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmantractors View Post
A cheater pipe is not quite the proper way to torque the axle nuts. No one has mentioned that the proper torque is 200 foot pounds. Tighten nut tighter if needed to get the cotter key in the castle nut. And yes it would be prudent to retorque the nut after say 200 miles.
As per the FSM, MR-252 it's 250 FT/LB torque, then align for the cotter pin.
DO NOT LOOSEN, tighten only for the c'pin.
LG
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