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Unread 07-13-2008, 09:00 PM   #31
bdmonist
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I'm playing around with the pattern a bit to see what does what and how bad it does it. I'll post the final pattern and specs when I'm done.

I have this question though - When I press in the inner bearing race into the case, how will that affect the patterns I am seeing now? I was thinking that it may actually decrease my pinion depth a little? Trure, not true? Thanks for looking.

Brian

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1984 CJ 7, SBC 350TBI, 700R4, D 300, AMC 20, D30, 35" Mickeys, 3.54 Gears, 4" susp. Lift, 2" body lift.

AMC 20 Write Up
In Progress - 4.56 gears, Aussie Rear Locker, Moser 1 Piece Axles
Coming Soon - CV Shafts, Welded Tubes, trusses
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Unread 07-13-2008, 09:23 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdmonist View Post
I'm playing around with the pattern a bit to see what does what and how bad it does it. I'll post the final pattern and specs when I'm done.

I have this question though - When I press in the inner bearing race into the case, how will that affect the patterns I am seeing now? I was thinking that it may actually decrease my pinion depth a little? Trure, not true? Thanks for looking.

Brian
Your assesment is true. Pinion movement away from the ring gear has the effect of decreasing pinion depth which will move the pattern up toward the face of the ring gear teeth.
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Unread 07-13-2008, 09:28 PM   #33
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Quote:
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Your assesment is true. Pinion movement away from the ring gear has the effect of decreasing pinion depth which will move the pattern up toward the face of the ring gear teeth.
Right I got that, I need to reword my Q above - My question is when I press in the NEW race, will it decrease depth or will it be what it is with the setup bearing?
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1984 CJ 7, SBC 350TBI, 700R4, D 300, AMC 20, D30, 35" Mickeys, 3.54 Gears, 4" susp. Lift, 2" body lift.

AMC 20 Write Up
In Progress - 4.56 gears, Aussie Rear Locker, Moser 1 Piece Axles
Coming Soon - CV Shafts, Welded Tubes, trusses
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Unread 07-13-2008, 09:40 PM   #34
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Right I got that, I need to reword my Q above - My question is when I press in the NEW race, will it decrease depth or will it be what it is with the setup bearing?
It may have some effect depending on whether there is any dimensional difference in the bearings. If you were using old bearings for setup, it's very possible that they may have had some wear on them. Weren't you using your new inner bearings for setup?
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Unread 07-13-2008, 09:42 PM   #35
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New inner bearing cone, but the race was the old setup for easy removal - 14 times now

I measured the bearing races before I got started and they are near identical from memory. I just didn't know if the fact that I would be pressing it in would have any affect.
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1984 CJ 7, SBC 350TBI, 700R4, D 300, AMC 20, D30, 35" Mickeys, 3.54 Gears, 4" susp. Lift, 2" body lift.

AMC 20 Write Up
In Progress - 4.56 gears, Aussie Rear Locker, Moser 1 Piece Axles
Coming Soon - CV Shafts, Welded Tubes, trusses
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Unread 07-14-2008, 03:24 AM   #36
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Got room in here for another?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdmonist View Post
New inner bearing cone, but the race was the old setup for easy removal - 14 times now
Got it going in the right direction? Noticed you prior post you have been witnessing how bad moves can leave a undesirable mark on things in there, leads me to wonder if you've also found what good moves revealed to you. Enough to work it on out I hope. Seems that way with your next to do of pressing it in there. It should help cause you won't want to take it out much more for sure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bdmonist View Post
I measured the bearing races before I got started and they are near identical from memory. I just didn't know if the fact that I would be pressing it in would have any affect.
Considering all the prior set ups you've done were all on clean housing seats making them all equal your pressing in of the new cup may set pinion head even deeper into the axle's C/L due to the old cups wear, little as it may be it's there. The greatest affect would be one step further toward the completion and once you press it in you could notice a slight change in depth readings compared to records but doubtful you could see a change in pattern and most certainly none of any true significance if all things have been tight and controlled thus far. But I would suggest not to be overly concerned as the wear is about to begin again maybe.

The suspense mounts. Show us what you see.
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Unread 07-14-2008, 08:45 AM   #37
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Got it going in the right direction? Noticed you prior post you have been witnessing how bad moves can leave a undesirable mark on things in there, leads me to wonder if you've also found what good moves revealed to you. Enough to work it on out I hope. Seems that way with your next to do of pressing it in there. It should help cause you won't want to take it out much more for sure.
Yes - I added about 15 thou just to see what affect it had, it was drastic. I could really see what root contact looked like. I also removed 5 to 10 thou again and played with backlash to see what affect as well. I have one more set to put in at .107/8 pinion shim depth, but I think I'll end up in there somewhere. I read elsewhere that the distinct line I am seeing near the root indicates the pinion may be a hair too deep. I can see that line diminish somewhat as I lessen shim depth, and I still get the clearance needed between the pattern and the top of the tooth. .110 was pretty good. Here it is





The line at the bottom is still there, but not as bold as was with .115 pinion shim depth.

I know I may be going overboard here since the earlier patterns were deemed acceptable, but I will be doing this at least three more times over the next year, so I want to be sure I know how thepattern changes and what markings are telling me.


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But I would suggest not to be overly concerned as the wear is about to begin again maybe.
Good - I didn't know if I should try to compensate for it with shims or not - NOT seems to be the answer.
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AMC 20 Write Up
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Coming Soon - CV Shafts, Welded Tubes, trusses
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Unread 07-14-2008, 09:00 AM   #38
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Gotta agree and it's looking impressive.. Pun totally intended!
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Unread 07-27-2008, 07:27 PM   #39
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Been playing around with the pinion depth and backlash ALOT!!! No need to really post all the patterns and details, just educating myself on what patterns are supposed to look like and what pinion and carrier shim changes do, how severe they do it, etc. I'm done playing around and back to getting ready to button this thing up. Here is my current pattern. .107 pinion shim, backlash around .0075-008. I've read that the Yukon gears have a phospohate coating that could add a couple thou of backlash once they are broken in. I will take this pattern and try to tighten up the backlash to .006 or so and see what it looks like.

Some things I've learned - I get a much better read on the pattern if I rotate the pinion as opposed to the ring gear. Also, the less gear compound the better. I still have a little too much here IMO.






Pattern not as ovate as I would like to see it, but we'll see what the backlash change does. OPINIONS WELCOME AND REQUESTED - Good or bad.
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AMC 20 Write Up
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Last edited by bdmonist; 07-27-2008 at 09:10 PM..
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Unread 07-27-2008, 09:17 PM   #40
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PS = .107, RGCS - .067, NRGCS = .113, B/L between .0065 and .007. Looking better I think. Still too much compound, which makes the root contact look more prevalent than I think it really is. You can start to see the pattern look ovate, as desired.


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AMC 20 Write Up
In Progress - 4.56 gears, Aussie Rear Locker, Moser 1 Piece Axles
Coming Soon - CV Shafts, Welded Tubes, trusses
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Unread 07-27-2008, 11:16 PM   #41
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Outstanding example your setting with the pattern changes with the same pinion depth but adding RGS shims to tighten the backlash some .001 now the ovate pattern is in fact beginning to appear within a smaller contact print. This is much more refined than the deeper into C/L patterns at .110 and .115
I notice the line near the face has diminished in the last trial from the prior .007-.008 B/L pattern and has begun to leave a slight ovate edge along the upper area and is not near as close to the face top land. This is good and with the B/L very near the inside limit of .006 on the AMC20 and add in the slightly closer proximity of the drive side pattern to the root land I believe you could set it up with even less pinion shim say .001-.003 and with .006 B/L as a goal you should be very near a perfect pattern. Thanks for your trials and efforts for examples sake.

It is really looking good.
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Unread 08-11-2008, 06:29 PM   #42
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Just so ya'll don't think I've given up. I'm waiting on shims again. I set the new race at 108 and it made a noticeable difference in deepening the pinion from the pattern at 108 with the setup race.

I removed the inner pinion race which was set and wala


The shims are the same ID as the ID of the race, so there was no way to knock the race out without hitting the shims. I'm going back to .106 on my pinion shim stack with the race pressed in, which I think will be about the same as 107/108 was with my setup race. Anyway, I don't have the stack I need to get to 106 or 107, so as soon as my shims come in I'll be back.
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AMC 20 Write Up
In Progress - 4.56 gears, Aussie Rear Locker, Moser 1 Piece Axles
Coming Soon - CV Shafts, Welded Tubes, trusses
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Unread 08-13-2008, 07:11 PM   #43
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New Shims Are in

I got the new shims in from ratech. Very unimpressed with this set. My measurements varied up to 4 thou on some of the shims. Upon further inspection, I noticed by feel that the edges on one side of both the inside and outside diameter still had burrs on them from when they were cut. I spent about 5 minutes on each shim with a fine file taking care of the burrs. Once that was done, all had exact measurements. Got the 106 pinion stack in the case and drove in the inner race with a bearing driver. Got it set good. Will put the pinion in tomorrow night I hope and get my "final" pattern - Let's hope.
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1984 CJ 7, SBC 350TBI, 700R4, D 300, AMC 20, D30, 35" Mickeys, 3.54 Gears, 4" susp. Lift, 2" body lift.

AMC 20 Write Up
In Progress - 4.56 gears, Aussie Rear Locker, Moser 1 Piece Axles
Coming Soon - CV Shafts, Welded Tubes, trusses
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Unread 08-17-2008, 02:14 PM   #44
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Alright guys, I think I'm there - Here is my pattern at 106 Pinion Shim, 064 RGCS, 116NRGCS, backlash .0074. The inner race is set. So everything in there is new except for the outer bearing cone. Overall I think the pattern is pretty good. Comments welcome as always.




Next I'll begin contemplating the crush sleeve installation. I'm up for lessons learned on this if you've got anything you want to share. I've go two crush sleeves just in case, hopefully that'll be enough.
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1984 CJ 7, SBC 350TBI, 700R4, D 300, AMC 20, D30, 35" Mickeys, 3.54 Gears, 4" susp. Lift, 2" body lift.

AMC 20 Write Up
In Progress - 4.56 gears, Aussie Rear Locker, Moser 1 Piece Axles
Coming Soon - CV Shafts, Welded Tubes, trusses
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Unread 08-17-2008, 04:52 PM   #45
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Well, got the crush sleeve on and finally crushed down. It took two of us, I couldn't get it on my own. My brother in law had to come finish it off. We checked it regularly once the end play was removed. We checed it at 12 in-lbs, then made 1/8 of a turn and it measured 34 in-lbs I'm sure they have that 15-25 in-lbs in the FSM for a reason - So unless someone has some insight as to why 34 in-lbs is acceptable, I'll be removing it all and starting over with my second and last crush sleeve.
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1984 CJ 7, SBC 350TBI, 700R4, D 300, AMC 20, D30, 35" Mickeys, 3.54 Gears, 4" susp. Lift, 2" body lift.

AMC 20 Write Up
In Progress - 4.56 gears, Aussie Rear Locker, Moser 1 Piece Axles
Coming Soon - CV Shafts, Welded Tubes, trusses
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