alternator/battery prob.

[JeepHammer]

Originally Posted by richardtemplema

i put a link above to the alt. i have its right here again, http://www.autozone.com/images/products/vlu/vlu7429003.jpg

You are missing the point here, I NEED PICTURES OF THE ALTERNATOR YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW, Front, side, or a rear 1/4 shot, something of the alternator you have right now, or the one you want to use, like a Delco 10 SI, what the bigger diagrams are written for...
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OK, this picture, which bares a striking resemblance to a Delco DN alternator,


And this picture, which bares a striking resemblance to a Motorola or Prestolite alternator,


DO NOT APPEAR TO BE THE SAME ALTERNATOR...
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i went to autozone today and grabbed a 10si from behind the counter it looks like it would work except the top alt. bracket we have on the jeep is not wide enough for the 10si...

Hack saw.
That's just the front frame of a common as nails Delco 10 SI alternator, and you can find them everywhere.
I trimmed mine ('73 CJ-5 w/factory V-8, came with Prestolite alternator) with a hack saw.

You may want to take a heavy file to the front of the threaded ear also to keep the belt alignment.
If you ever need a new alternator, just switch this front frame over to the new 'Guts'.
The front bearing bolts in from the inside, so that's easily moved to a new alternator too.
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they also showed me a 1 wire alt. yes or no on that idea, i havent heard much about them?

One wire is an 'Industrial' adaptation intended for daily use.
That particular regulator for the 'One Wire' will not live as long as the regular Delco regulator, won't allow the alternator to produce like it should, and will allow your battery to discharge if you leave the vehicle sit for very long....
They were meant for fork trucks and the like, stuff that never sits more than for a weekend and gets regular, if not constant maintenance.

After ten years in the alternator/Starter rebuild business, I learned really quickly not to warranty 'one wire' alternators unless someone was paying FULL RETAIL!
It was going to come back when the regulator failed, or the battery went dead one too many times.
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...again i would like to switch to a internal regulated alt. so if there is either a bracket i can get to work for the 10si or a diff. alt. that would fit into the bracket i have already please let me know.

Trim the 'Thick' foot with a hack saw, but keep a pretty tight measurement so the foot fits snug in your 'C' shaped bracket.
(Make the front frame fit your application!)

Like I said, you may want to file about 1/8" of the thickness away from the front of the threaded ear also, this will help the belts line up.

*there is no junk yards for 200 miles from here so i cant go get a bracket from there*

No junk yard is going to produce a bracket that is going to fit on a Ford engine, on a vehicle designed for a Motorola alternator, that you are going to use a Delco alternator on.
Fabrication time all the way around...

You may locate a 'Universal' Adjuster Bracket from someplace like Summit Racing
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2DG4049&autoview=sku


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i was thinking about doing this http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f27/big-three-big-3-upgrade-how-to-321309/

what do you guys think? they are also saying though in that thread that you dont need to fuse the power wire i always read to fuse it, what do you guys think?[/quote]

I think you should make a trip to NAPA instead of some designer stereo store...

2 ga. or 4 ga. WELDING cable for batteries and starter.
See My Diagrams.
Welding cable is virgin copper (no alloys) and fine strand, so it will conduct more amperage for longer before heating up.
Find strand bends easier when you are working it.
Welding cable insulation is fire resistant, heat resistant, spark resistant, chemical resistant (gas, oil, sludge), rubberized so it resists abrasion better than vinyl insulated wire.

Get some SOLID COPPER terminals, the kind that have to be crimped on the wire.
They will have cadmium plated surface, and the correct stainless steel battery terminal bolts and nuts...
(yes, there are special bolts & nuts for battery terminal use)
Don't forget to crimp in some 10 gauge wires for your grounds and voltage feeds from the battery, like alternator and feeds to the electric fans, ect.
You will need at least two 10 gauge wires crimped in with the negative battery cable, one to a 'Grounding Stud' you can ground everything else from, and the other to the alternator.

Get some Heat Shrink Tubing.
Red for positive and black to locate the negative terminal.
The dull 'Rubberized' kind that has glue inside,
NOT the shiny vinyl crap that doesn't work...
When you heat this stuff, the glue will activate and seal the wires in the connection.

I think you should run your primary battery ground to the starter mounting bolt.
See my diagrams.
Your starter is going to draw the most amperage of anything on the vehicle...
So relying on a half ****ed rotted out cable that attaches to the engine block is a stupid idea.
That current needs a direct path BACK TO THE BATTERY, not through half a dozen greasy, rusty, loose bolts, metal joints that have had moisture creep into them, ect.

REMEMBER!
We do this because we intend for our jeeps to service us for years to come.
All the factory was interested in was living through the 12 month, 12,000 mile warranty period.
After the warranty, if you had problems, you were money in the bank for the dealership, one way or another...
You would either have your vehicle fixed, they made money on the shop,
OR,
You purchased a 'New' vehicle that was under warranty and presumed to be 'Reliable'...
And they made money!

Electrically speaking,
You are driving about 5 jeeps that are flying in very close formation,
BUT,
Aren't actually touching...

You will need to supply DEDICATED grounds to your,

1. Alternator, rusty, or painted parts, loose bolts, ect. all combine to keep your alternator from getting a proper ground.

2. Engine block, especially the heads where the high voltage from the ignition is seeking ground!
Wouldn't hurt to run a 12 ga. wire to the ignition module also....

3. Your Starter. Largest drain on the vehicle, and the most electronically isolated.
At the very least, it has 13 places for the current to be reduced or eliminated all together if your 'Ground' wire goes to the block...

4. The lights.
Ground the front grill, the rear tail lights with dedicated wiring. This saves a TON of light problems later down the line!
Don't forget to ground the gas tank sender while you are back there! (never grounded properly from the factory)

5. Your dash, the dash problems will keep you guessing for weeks!
Remember, that's where the wind shield wipers and other accessories, like dash lights and gauges get ground from.

6. Frame/Tub both need a ground.
Some people use those flat straps, but they are worthless anyplace you have water or salt...
Use a good soldered terminal wire and make SURE you are getting a ground!
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As for the differences in my diagrams compared to the factory diagrams or the way the factory did stuff,
I've been doing this for a LONG time, on cars, big trucks, mine equipment, ect...
And this way is designed to keep you up and running LONGER with less maintenance than the way the factory did things...

[richardtemplema]

thanks for helping out so much.. i do not have the alt. in the 1st picture i have the Prestolite alt. from the 2nd picture... i will go take it back and get the 10si and get out the hacksaw.. so the only mod i will have to do to get it to fit in the Prestolite/Motorola bracket is just trim the big foot down? sorry for asking so much just dont want to hack that one up and not be able to take it back if it wont work...

as for upgrading the wire ill get some of that welding cable, do you think running that big of wire to the alt is just overkill? and again which of these wires need to be fused?
i have no idea how to solder, would crimping it work or should the really be soldered.

the headlights are really dim barely working i have seen some threads on building a new wiring harness for the headlights with relays built in, do you know a good thread how to on this?

the brake lights are also not working the running lights are on correctly and the blinkers work just when you brake the lights dont change any the running lights just stay on... any idea on where to start there?? sorry for all the questions just trying to get this thing reliable and legal

[JeepHammer]

Originally Posted by richardtemplema

thanks for helping out so much.. i do not have the alt. in the 1st picture i have the Prestolite alt. from the 2nd picture... i will go take it back and get the 10si and get out the hacksaw.. so the only mod i will have to do to get it to fit in the Prestolite/Motorola bracket is just trim the big foot down?

I don't know for sure what bracket you have, since we don't have pictures yet...

Delco 10 SI alternators grow on trees, and they are EASY to find. Practice on a 'Junk' or 'Core' alternator from a junk yard first.
If you don't have junk yards locally, find someone with old GM vehicles sitting around a buy a core from them to practice on.

Remember, the front frame (the front housing) of those 10 SI alts are interchangeable.
If you get one JUST the way you like it, you can always swap it onto the discount store alternator...

sorry for asking so much just dont want to hack that one up and not be able to take it back if it wont work...

Get a 'Pig' to work on first. Everywhere and cheap.

...as for upgrading the wire ill get some of that welding cable, do you think running that big of wire to the alt is just overkill?

PAY ATTENTION TO THE DIAGRAM.
Alternator gets 10 gauge wire, not welding cable.
Anything over about 75 amps needs 8 gauge wire.

...and again which of these wires need to be fused?
i have no idea how to solder, would crimping it work or should the really be soldered.

PAY ATTENTION TO THE DIAGRAM.
Fusible links (fuse wire, available from NAPA) are clearly marked in the diagrams and list sizes for what run of wire.

Solder is easy, and this is a good time to learn.
Much better to solder the connections than to have moisture creep into the joints and rot them out where you can't see the corrosion.

Radio Shack has a excellent solder for beginners
(and for anyone working with anything less than about 8 gauge wire)
Very good flow into the joints, excellent conductor, and works well to seal connections.
It's very fine and very easy to control.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062717&cp=&sr=1&origkw=solder &kw=solder&parentPage=search
Radio Shack p/n 64-013

...the headlights are really dim barely working i have seen some threads on building a new wiring harness for the headlights with relays built in, do you know a good thread how to on this?

One thing at a time there Trigger!

You get the alternator working and I'll draw you up a head light relay harness, but you WILL have to solder for that one!

...the brake lights are also not working the running lights are on correctly and the blinkers work just when you brake the lights dont change any the running lights just stay on... any idea on where to start there?? sorry for all the questions just trying to get this thing reliable and legal

Get the alternator working, and I'll walk you through all this, not only get them working, but keep them working for years to come...
I don't wire for kids or guys that want to keep things stock...
I wire to get things working and keep things working!

[richardtemplema]

alright thanks alot ill get that alt. working and get a picture of it my g/f has been on vacation *with her camera* so ill get it before i start cutting one up
also do i want to crimp and solder or just solder?

[JeepHammer]

Originally Posted by richardtemplema

...do i want to crimp and solder or just solder?

Depends on the location of the terminal...

Under the dash, you can get away with just crimping those terminals, they don't see moisture a lot.

In the engine bay, you should take the appropriate measures to keep mud, water, salt, sand and what ever else you drive on out of your connections.

On battery cables, I crimp, solder with silver bearing solder, and use heat shrink.
Remember, the guys at NAPA will show you how to use all this stuff if you get it there.
(Battery cable size terminals take a special crimper, and when you get your cables cut to size, NAPA will crimp them for free if you buy your stuff there)

Heat gun from Harbor Freight or Sears is about $20 and works great for heat shrink tubing.
Once you learn to use heat shrink, and what kind of heat shrink to use (Rubberized with glue) you won't use electrical tape again.
I bet I don't use a roll of electrical tape a year anymore...

There are good quality smaller terminals that have the solder already in them.
You crimp, then use a heat gun.
Again, NAPA can direct you to the correct terminals.
I would also use heat shrink with these.

REMEMBER, just because the terminal came with a plastic insulator, doesn't mean you have to leave it on there to crack and fall off later!
I give the plastic a little heat, then pull it off with pliers so my Heat Shrink makes a good looking, as well as solidly insulated connection.