alternator/battery prob.

[richardtemplema]

hey made a thread a few days ago and was talking about my brother just buying a 72 jeep it has a ford s/b in it. we bought it and drove it 2 1/2 hours home and about 20 minutes before we got home it died quite a few times and the battery was dead. so we went and got the alt. and battery tested both were bad got a new one... alot of the wiring going to the alt and the battery grounds are kinda ****ty. all the alt. says its pumping out is 12v with no headlights on 10v with them on and like 8 with the high beams on.... any suggestions on what i could do to improve whats happening.

like i said brand new alt. and battery, ****ty wiring, so any ideas on what i could do to get it to where it should be? thanks in advanced

[OldSailor]

First off, charge the battery up by using a good 110v charger, or by hooking it up to another vehicle for a while. Once you know the battery is fully charged, take those voltage readings again.

If they're still low, then look to replacing your battery cables. If the wiring between the alternator and battery also looks bad, replace it with good wiring. Also, check to insure that the alternator drive belt is tight. If it's too loose, that can contribute to your problems.

[bigjoe]

Could also be a out of box failure on the "new" alt. Get it tested as well. As oldsailor stated be sure battery is charged and all connections are good.

[JeepHammer]

I can help with testing and wiring diagrams, but I have to know what type of alternator you have...

Pics would tell me very quickly what alternator you have, and get one of the voltage regulator if you can find one...

Assuming you have a Ford alternator on your Ford engine, it should have a 'Square Ear' (look at the diagram at the mounting 'Ears' on the alternator drawing).

This is about what you should do for wiring,


If the alternator doesn't have a 'Square Ear', and has a 2 wire plug in the side or back of the alternator, It's probably a Delco, and this plug wire diagram will tell you which one you have.


------------------

Like I said, pictures would tell the tale very quickly!

[richardtemplema]

Originally Posted by JeepHammer

I can help with testing and wiring diagrams, but I have to know what type of alternator you have...

Pics would tell me very quickly what alternator you have, and get one of the voltage regulator if you can find one...

Assuming you have a Ford alternator on your Ford engine, it should have a 'Square Ear' (look at the diagram at the mounting 'Ears' on the alternator drawing).

This is about what you should do for wiring,


If the alternator doesn't have a 'Square Ear', and has a 2 wire plug in the side or back of the alternator, It's probably a Delco, and this plug wire diagram will tell you which one you have.


------------------

Like I said, pictures would tell the tale very quickly!

thanks everyone for there input. ill get pics of the alt. as soon as possible it looks alot like the alt. above the diff. is theres 4 bolts to connect wires to, two on each side. and there also is a clip plug in but it doesnt look like either of those two there is one male connect vertically and the other one next to it is horizontal. so like this basically >>> I_

i would like to re-wire the alt. completely the wiring is a mess and the wires look 100 years old. we just bought a + battery cable the - looks all coroded so we will get to replacing that, the - from the battery goes to the engine block and then theres a real small wire that goes from the battery to the body.. when i re-do it should i run it from the - to the frame rail and then one from the engine over to the same ground spot on the frame? also about running a new wire from the alt. to the battery what size fuse should i use and wire gauge. also i'm not sure where the voltage regulator is so if anyone could explain where i could find that i can try and get a picture of that too

[JeepHammer]

You are asking questions about a charging system when we don't have a clue what you have!

Wait until you identify the alternator, then I can post a wiring diagram that will work for you.

I also need to know if you have a volt gauge? Or AMP gauge?
Do you intend to use one?

'72 has an 'Idiot' light, do you want to use it also?

[richardtemplema]

Originally Posted by JeepHammer

You are asking questions about a charging system when we don't have a clue what you have!

Wait until you identify the alternator, then I can post a wiring diagram that will work for you.

I also need to know if you have a volt gauge? Or AMP gauge?
Do you intend to use one?

'72 has an 'Idiot' light, do you want to use it also?

this is the part # from my receipt.
http://www.autozone.com/R,APP186377/vehicleId,1422903/initialAction,partProductDetail/store,5303/partType,00086/shopping/partProductDetail.htm

i have a volt gauge and amp gauge the amps is just always at zero so im pretty that ones not hooked up. if they both can work ill use both if not the volts will be just fine, and no i dont need the idiot light

the links not working right thats not the alt. but if you go to autozone.com and in product search its 7429

[richardtemplema]

any more suggestions anyone, im gonna try and fix it tomorrow if anyone can help out??? thanks

[JeepHammer]

Bad amp gauge will mimic a bad alternator.
Since the entire load of the alternator runs through an amp gauge, when it quits, it looks all for the world like the alternator quit.

That sure isn't the factory alternator, the factory for '72 was a Motorola unit.
And it's not a ford alternator that I can tell, Looks like a Delco DN externally regulated alternator...


If I could get a better look...
----------------


If so, then an internally regulated Delco SI series will fit right in that bracket, and I have all kinds of wiring diagrams for that alternator...

Delco SI alternators were used for 20+ years on everything made by GM, and on most Jeep vehicles from '76 to '91.
Easy to get one, just ask for an alternator for a '79 CJ, and get an alternator plug while you are there...
The counter guy should know what you mean by 'Alternator Plug' for that alt.

[David Richards]

I posted a thread this summer because I did similar repairs and it wouldnt start. I rechecked/rechecked the grounds. These guys beat me with the notion, and it worked for me. Good luck.

[jeepdaddy2000]

A couple of quick things. First, Being it is an externally regulated alternator, it is possible that the regulator is bad (or missing. Don't laugh, this has happened to me). Insure it is plugged in. If everything is there and looks good, then you can do some simple checks to isolate the problem. First, check to see if the indicator light in the instrument cluster is working. It should light with the key on. If not, disconnect the harness at the regulator and check for power with your test light at the #4 (farthest right) harness terminal. If your test light doesn't come on, then you will need to repair the circuit. If everything looks good, then connect a jump wire from the "F" harness terminal(farthest left) to the #3 harness terminal. connect your volt meter to the + and - battery terminals and start the engine. speed up the RPM's 1500 to 2000. You should see an increase of one or two volts. If not, the alternator is bad/harness mis-wired. If so, the regulator is bad/out of adjustment. Personally, I'm with Jeephammer on this one. The 10-SI internally regulated alternator would be the simpler/cheaper charging unit for this application. If you decide to go this route, let us know, as the wiring is simple to change.

[richardtemplema]

Originally Posted by jeepdaddy2000

A couple of quick things. First, Being it is an externally regulated alternator, it is possible that the regulator is bad (or missing. Don't laugh, this has happened to me). Insure it is plugged in. If everything is there and looks good, then you can do some simple checks to isolate the problem. First, check to see if the indicator light in the instrument cluster is working. It should light with the key on. If not, disconnect the harness at the regulator and check for power with your test light at the #4 (farthest right) harness terminal. If your test light doesn't come on, then you will need to repair the circuit. If everything looks good, then connect a jump wire from the "F" harness terminal(farthest left) to the #3 harness terminal. connect your volt meter to the + and - battery terminals and start the engine. speed up the RPM's 1500 to 2000. You should see an increase of one or two volts. If not, the alternator is bad/harness mis-wired. If so, the regulator is bad/out of adjustment. Personally, I'm with Jeephammer on this one. The 10-SI internally regulated alternator would be the simpler/cheaper charging unit for this application. If you decide to go this route, let us know, as the wiring is simple to change.

ok well first of all its not the alternator in the pic above i said the link for some reason was going to the wrong alternator the one we got was a valucraft alternator it does have an external voltage regulator it was for a 72 cj5 with 2bl 5.0l thats what the alternator we got is for... so i would personally rather take this one back and get a internally regulated alternator if your saying i could get one that will fit right into this alt. place, if so let me know ill take this one back and get the other one and would appreciate it if you could post the diagram for the new alt... thank everyone

this is the alt. i got http://www.autozone.com/images/products/vlu/vlu7429003.jpg

[richardtemplema]

jeep hammer any more advice on this, pleaseeeee

[JeepHammer]

Still don't know what alternator you are using!

*IF*
You have a Delco DN series alternator,
(looks much like the one in the picture you posted)
Then this is your wiring diagram,


--------------------------

*IF*
The Ford alternator rode over with the engine, you may very well have the wrong voltage regulator...
I posted the Ford alternator information earlier.
Look for the 'Square' mounting ear shown in the diagram.
------------------------

*IF*
If you want to change to the Delco that most of us are using, that is easy!
From the look of the picture you posted, it will fit right in your bracket, and it's a three wire hookup (plus dedicated ground if you want to do this correctly)...
All easy to do.

One option is WITH an 'Idiot' light, The other is WITHOUT an 'idiot' light.
If you use the alternator out of a '79 Jeep CJ,
It will wire like this,


--------------------------

*IF*
You want to quick wire that Delco SI alternator most of us are using, you can use one of these two ways to do that.
These are not 'Correct' according to Delco, but they are in wide use and seem to work for most people.





Although the factory used both of these ways to wire the alternator, Delco (the manufacturer of the alternator) does NOT recommend you do things that way.
With the 'Sense' or 'Sample' wire connected to the battery like that, the parasitic loads of the vehicle can't be compensated for, but they are VERY quick and they make great test circuits.
------------------------------

As for the diode mentioned in my diagrams.
The part number is usually included in the diagrams somewhere if you read...

This is the easiest way to wire one in I've found so far...
Start with a new plug from the auto parts store (under $5)


This example is shown with a jumper terminal to the back of the alternator (Ring Terminal on Red wire).
This can be wired this way to do testing, and then clip the ring off and put on the proper 'Sample' or 'Sense' wire connected somewhere 'after' the fuse box.

[richardtemplema]

i put a link above to the alt. i have its right here again, http://www.autozone.com/images/products/vlu/vlu7429003.jpg

i went to autozone today and grabbed a 10si from behind the counter it looks like it would work except the top alt. bracket we have on the jeep is not wide enough for the 10si they also showed me a 1 wire alt. yes or no on that idea, i havent heard much about them? again i would like to switch to a internal regulated alt. so if there is either a bracket i can get to work for the 10si or a diff. alt. that would fit into the bracket i have already please let me know.

*there is no junk yards for 200 miles from here so i cant go get a bracket from there*

i was thinking about doing this http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f27/big-three-big-3-upgrade-how-to-321309/

what do you guys think? they are also saying though in that thread that you dont need to fuse the power wire i always read to fuse it, what do you guys think?