Adam's 1979 CJ5 Frame-up - Page 3 - JeepForum.com

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post #31 of 248 Old 05-21-2012, 08:34 PM
commadore64
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I love to watch CJ-5 builds, but I'm a bit biased. Looking good so far!


1980 CJ-5
My build thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/bo...j-5-a-1290405/

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post #32 of 248 Old 05-21-2012, 08:34 PM
Bojon
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Awesome build so far. Can't wait to see more!

My CJ5 Build

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post #33 of 248 Old 05-22-2012, 12:04 AM Thread Starter
acgcoug
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2girlsAndaGuy View Post
wow very jealous of your new helper, that is sure going to come in handy. As always your sheet metal work puts mine to shame, good job!
Bah, you are doing great!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffen24 View Post
great progress! Tagging along for the ride. Siting on another 79 CJ5 myself in need of some TLC.
Thanks! Slowly but surely I am making headway.

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Originally Posted by Skerr View Post
Is that cool or what? You're going to love that addition.
For sure, the compressor has definitely helped me a ton already.

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post #34 of 248 Old 05-25-2012, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
acgcoug
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Update time.

As you can see, I needed to pull the rear wheel housing guard/brace and address the rot on it, and the rust behind it.



After a 24 hour phosphoric acid bath:



Bad section cut out and patch piece formed:



All welded up:



Finished:


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post #35 of 248 Old 05-25-2012, 11:42 AM Thread Starter
acgcoug
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Top side of rear wheel housing where the brace/guard was spot welded:



Backside:



Maintaining the ribbing. I had some leftover scrap from the rear floor pan patches.



Finished up. The blotchy black areas are from phosphoric acid.


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post #36 of 248 Old 05-25-2012, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Another seat belt mount needing attention:



Cut out:



Patched in and basically done. Just a bit more cleaning up of welds still.


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post #37 of 248 Old 05-25-2012, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
acgcoug
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Here's an older before pic of my passenger side roll bar mount area:



Bad section cut out:




Patch finished:





An old pic of my rear floors:



Looking better I'd say:


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post #38 of 248 Old 05-25-2012, 01:05 PM
Renegade82
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Nice work. Now tell me about the phosphoric acid process. I imagine you paint it on, do you then rinse it off with water or what?

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post #39 of 248 Old 05-25-2012, 06:17 PM Thread Starter
acgcoug
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Originally Posted by Renegade82 View Post
Nice work. Now tell me about the phosphoric acid process. I imagine you paint it on, do you then rinse it off with water or what?



I have a couple gallons of it that I bought from Home Depot ($15 gal.). I have some in a spray bottle, some in a cup to brush on, and over a gallon in a rubbermaid tub for soaking small items. This stuff loves rust, and if given enough time to soak, it will eat through some pretty thick rust deposits. After soaking, I rinse the item off with water (water neutralizes the acid) and then quickly dry the item with a towel, compressed air, and set it out in the sun to fully dry. This helps prevent flash rusting after the rinse.


Here's a pic showing half of an item that soaked in phosphoric for a 24hr period. Pretty cool how the acid gets into all the pits and gets rid of the rust.



Here's another example. I won't be using this piece, but I let the one end soak for 24 hrs and the acid cut through most of the heavy rust. Another 12 hours or so and it would all be rid of.




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post #40 of 248 Old 05-25-2012, 08:40 PM
Davidnex
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Good progress, I' ll be following

79 CJ 5 Frame up Build
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/79-cj-5-frame-up-1092681/
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post #41 of 248 Old 05-25-2012, 09:15 PM
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My experience with Phosphoric Acid is similar, but different! This chemical comes under many different labels/names. A couple very old ones are Naval Jelly and Ospho. Both of these older materials are designed to be wiped on, sprayed on, or brushed on, but not soaked in. I'm not really sure that soaking a piece of metal in Phos Acid for extended periods is a good idea, but I'm no Chemist. Ospho, for example, is like water. You apply it to your piece and let it dry. You don't wash it off. In 24 hours you come back to it and check it. If there is a white, powdery residue then there is still rust remaining, and you apply the material again to the affected areas. You are supposed to repeat those steps until the white powder is gone, hence no more rust. The rust converts to carbon (?) and the metal is sealed. You won't have flash rust, but the coating doesn't last forever. At this point, you wire brush any powdery residue, use a self-etching primer, and paint. Bullet-proof!

POR-15 has a good product called Metal Ready. It is also Phos Acid, but it conatins Zinc too. The Zinc provides a "cold dip" giving an additional layer of rust inhibitor. The significant difference in application between POR's brand and straight Phos Acid is that POR's brand requires you keep the metal wet for 20 minutes, whereas with Phos Acid you just spray and walk away.

Don't pour these materials into a metal container to apply. Use only plastic containers.

Your pictures are great, and no criticisms intended.

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post #42 of 248 Old 05-26-2012, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
acgcoug
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerr View Post
My experience with Phosphoric Acid is similar, but different! This chemical comes under many different labels/names. A couple very old ones are Naval Jelly and Ospho. Both of these older materials are designed to be wiped on, sprayed on, or brushed on, but not soaked in. I'm not really sure that soaking a piece of metal in Phos Acid for extended periods is a good idea, but I'm no Chemist. Ospho, for example, is like water. You apply it to your piece and let it dry. You don't wash it off. In 24 hours you come back to it and check it. If there is a white, powdery residue then there is still rust remaining, and you apply the material again to the affected areas. You are supposed to repeat those steps until the white powder is gone, hence no more rust. The rust converts to carbon (?) and the metal is sealed. You won't have flash rust, but the coating doesn't last forever. At this point, you wire brush any powdery residue, use a self-etching primer, and paint. Bullet-proof!

POR-15 has a good product called Metal Ready. It is also Phos Acid, but it conatins Zinc too. The Zinc provides a "cold dip" giving an additional layer of rust inhibitor. The significant difference in application between POR's brand and straight Phos Acid is that POR's brand requires you keep the metal wet for 20 minutes, whereas with Phos Acid you just spray and walk away.

Don't pour these materials into a metal container to apply. Use only plastic containers.

Your pictures are great, and no criticisms intended.
Thanks for the input on the phosphoric acid Scott. As you probably know, phosphoric acid is a mild acid. It attacks and reacts to iron oxide (rust) very quickly, and reacts to steel at a very, very slow rate. We probably do more damage to our steel with wire wheels/grinding disks than what phosphoric acid would do to steel in a 24 hour period.

With that said, people should be educating and researching methods like this themselves. From there, one can make their own educated decision on such methods.

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post #43 of 248 Old 05-26-2012, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acgcoug View Post
Thanks for the input on the phosphoric acid Scott. As you probably know, phosphoric acid is a mild acid. It attacks and reacts to iron oxide (rust) very quickly, and reacts to steel at a very, very slow rate. We probably do more damage to our steel with wire wheels/grinding disks than what phosphoric acid would do to steel in a 24 hour period.

With that said, people should be educating and researching methods like this themselves. From there, one can make their own educated decision on such methods.
Adam, be advised, Phosphoric Acid is tied with Sulfuric Acid as the second most powerful acid in its pure form, second only to Hydro Iodic. Even the diluted commercial product that we use burns the heck out of your lungs and skin. What does the label on your material say? Does it actually say to soak the metal? I agree, we're pretty merciless with our wire wheels, and that's a great analogy... one I had not considered.

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post #44 of 248 Old 05-26-2012, 07:10 PM
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The other option, and one that works wonders for smaller parts is electrolysis. You need a non-metallic tub large enough for your parts, water, and sodium hydroxide (lye,available at home depot as septic main line cleaner), a pair of jumper cables, some scrap iron, and a 12v battery charger ( charger must not be the ones with built in fault shutdown or auto shutdown)

Google it. It works wonders!
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post #45 of 248 Old 05-26-2012, 08:05 PM
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I put the phosphoric acid in cheap spray bottles. I use it to prep, clean, and protect steel prior to painting.

The Jeep build looks like it's coming along.

Vibration? Bump steer? Wandering? Read the article (sticky) on Steering, suspension, and driveline.
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