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Unread 12-26-2013, 02:42 PM   #16
oconnob55
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Exchanged ing mod, no difference, pulled cap and rotor... found pickup coil with exposed wire at the molded rubber going into distributor, removed pickup coil, waiting until tomorrow to get new one.... maybe this is it.

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Unread 12-26-2013, 07:49 PM   #17
JeepHammer
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That's a VERY low voltage reference signal from the pick up coil to the module, so it doesn't take much corrosion to make it a dead player...

I'm headed out your way again in just a little bit, Quantico this time...
Like the people out that way once you get out of DC...
DC people are like all 'City' people, the folks that are just plain folks are pretty easy to get along with!

One thing I would check, with a test light,
Hook to battery POSITIVE,
Probe negative to make sure you have a good connection, and test the 'Test Light',

Then I'd pull the coil connector off and probe the 'Green' wire terminal in the coil connector.
If it 'Flashes' when cranking, then you DO NOT have an issue with module or trigger.

If it Does NOT flash while cranking, then it's time to start looking into module or trigger.

----------

I'd probe the 'RED' wire in the coil connector to see if you get 'Bright' light while cranking,
This will tell you if the 'Red' 'I' terminal to the ignition coil is getting full power when cranking,
And a dimmer light when the key switch is in the 'Run' position...
When key switch is in 'Run' position, the power is going through the ignition resistor (Which may have given up) you should have reduced power to the ignition coil.

Module HARNESS side should have 'Blue' wire (Connects to module 'White' wire) showing full voltage while cranking,

And the HARNESS side of module connector should show full power with the key switch in the 'Run' position.

If the module is getting power, and the coil is getting power, and the 'Green' coil connector wire test is showing 'Ground' through the module, then it's the module or the distributor trigger...

You are fixing to replace the distributor trigger, which should rule out one of the potential issues, but never discount getting a bad module from the parts store, it's happened to plenty of us!

This is the wiring diagram for your ignition,

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Unread 12-27-2013, 11:34 AM   #18
oconnob55
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Change pick up coil, no change.... had friend with identical 84 w/ 4 cyl stop by, we swapped dist, ing module, coil, and solinoid... all items that I replaced minus the ing switch, hers started, mine didn't... leads me to think that all items under hood are good. Swapped everything back and hers started and mine still not running. Thinking back to the flash under the dash the morning this all started, is there a relay or fuse under dash around column that could have blown? She departed, possible to have mechanic stop by tomorrow, I am at a loss.
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Unread 12-27-2013, 05:51 PM   #19
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Anyone recommend an expert to review / repair my 84 no spark issue in the Virginia Beach area? Need to repair prior to deployment or long term stowage will be its home for nine months.
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Unread 12-28-2013, 04:46 PM   #20
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For the heck of it, I changed battery cables and installed battery to body and new frame ground cables (4g).... Still no change, will contact local Jeep mechanic and have it towed for repair. All voltage matches drawing and flashing test lights as the provided info states.... Something tells me the flash under the dash the morning this happened might indicate something more serious.... my plug and play replacement abilities are finished.

Thanks for everyones input, digging through this I have learned much.... or enough to sound educated at a Jeep run.... or not ;-)
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Unread 12-29-2013, 05:43 PM   #21
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Bought a continuity circuit tester, started unpluging items.... first issue - neg terminal on battery to pos on coil, the tester lights up, very dim... not good. The PO appears to have spliced into loom, and retaped w/ duct tape, ballast reducer wire goes over to fuse block where it was ducted taped to three other wires, tester lights up... again not good. Snip, snip.. break up duct tape bundle, no longer a ground fault inside. Other red cable goes to ign module, pull plug all terminals on two prong plug lights up both ends, pull four prong plug, this stops lighting up two prong plug. Basically found I have a short or ground on loom wires between pick up coil and ign module. When I did my nutter I did the wires that needed and didn't cut into the loom to review PO work, it appears I should have. With both ends of the loom from ign module to dist, I have two wires lighting up as grounds, from what have read, I should have one. The coil is disconected and pulled out, more to follow tomorrow, have to pick up heat shrink and some flux to repair, and remove about 6 more duct tape joints I found in the inner part of loom.
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Last edited by oconnob55; 12-29-2013 at 05:44 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Unread 12-30-2013, 04:11 PM   #22
JeepHammer
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Take the diagram I posted above, UNHOOK EVERYTHING, distributor, coil, module, two wires from starter relay, and start looking for 'Ground' issues if that is what you suspect...

Since the wiring diagram shows you where every wire in the ignition goes, you can connect from one end to the other end and look for resistance or proper current path (little or no resistance) to see if you have something wired stupid...

Remember, the 'Ground Path' for the ignition is through the DISTRIBUTOR HOUSING,
The 'Black' wire from distributor to module is the ignition system 'Ground',
Without this 'Ground' the 'Green' wire from coil to module doesn't matter.

If you have 'Ground' at the MODULE black wire HARNESS SIDE, then you have 'Ground' connection with block,
Then hook module up and see if you have 'Ground' from COIL CONNECTOR through the module.

The Orange & Violet wires are the trigger signal, and that should have been what you 'Nuttered' when you did that.
Most people don't add a 'Violet' wire from module to distributor harness when they 'Nutter' and that is a mistake...
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Unread 12-31-2013, 03:31 PM   #23
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Where should the second brown wire from alt plug hook up? Power wire (red) under hood side of fuse block? One goes to solinoid, not plugged into sol, but that is where it ended in the loom.
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Unread 12-31-2013, 07:04 PM   #24
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Back to no fire.... got half mile from driveway, Jeep stopped.... OK...I give
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Unread 12-31-2013, 08:37 PM   #25
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Dumas moment.... zip tie slipped, seperated power joint. Installing power joint block to "spade" attach wires, put everthing back, started back up. Very surprised what I found in loom, lots of non-electrical tape and old cracked and worn wires. Idles good, need to do full nutter to pull ecm and excess wires out... possible after deployment, for now I have bypassed, short version. Saw friends Jeep that had full nutter, and the wiring pulled out cleaned up engine bay.
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Unread 01-01-2014, 07:22 AM   #26
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oconnob55 View Post
Where should the second brown wire from alt plug hook up? Power wire (red) under hood side of fuse block? One goes to solinoid, not plugged into sol, but that is where it ended in the loom.
Brown wire from Alternator 'Excite' (#1) terminal in two wire plug,
Goes to 'Ignition Red' line.
Shuts 'OFF' with ignition switch.

That 'Brown' wire should be stiff, it's a resistor wire and if you replace it, you will need to replace that resistance.
This is SIMPLE, it's a $1.50 Diode from Radio Shack if you decide to rewire entirely.
It's hard to find that resistor wire, and they don't last forever, so the diode is a simple and effective, not to mention CHEAP solution.

New plugs for the alternator are about $5, but they don't come with resistor wires.
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Unread 01-01-2014, 07:33 AM   #27
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oconnob55 View Post
Dumas moment....
That's not a 'Dumbas Moment', that's a Jeep Owners Moment!
We all have them on a regular basis!

There is a reason I use electrical silver bearing solder instead of 'Spade' terminals, and you just found out why!

Solder them, heat shrink or otherwise environmentally protect them, and you don't have to hunt down the 'Issues' again...

AMC screwed us from the start! And it still hurts after all these years!

----------

Consider this when you do the wiring clean up...

When you find a 'Splice' in the middle of a wire and you replace the wire,
Don't 'Splice' in the middle of the new wire...

Start from it's TERMINAL, or termination, the 'Spade' connectors you find at the fire wall, starter relay, ect.
Run a SECOND WIRE from the terminal BACK or FORWARD to the electrical component you are powering up.

This keeps the 'Splice' out of the center of the wire where it's hard to find.
It's MUCH EASIER to find a bad 'Spade' connector than to unwrap the entire harness,
So if you have issues in the future, you know EXACTLY where to look!


-------------

Here is another tip, since you live in a 'Salted Road' state right now...

A 'DRIP LOOP'...
This is a little loop of wire, with a wire tie, just before you reach termination.
This allows the salt/water/what ever to drip off the wire and NOT follow it right into the connector.

Another way to seal up 'Open' connectors is to fill them up, both sides, wire side and terminal side, with DIELECTRIC grease.
When you push the connector together, the DIELECTRIC grease will 'Squish' out of the terminal on both wire ends, you wipe off the excess...

WHERE DIELECTRIC GREASE IS, CORROSION CAN'T BE, there is no oxygen or moisture to cause corrosion, so it's a pretty safe way to keep thing dry and clean. (Cheap too, Dielectric grease is cheap and found at every parts store, there is even a aerosol canned version that makes 'Power Filling' of connectors a snap.)

Have a safe journey!
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