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Unread 12-22-2013, 11:40 AM   #1
oconnob55
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84 CJ, turns over no fire

Started yesterday, warmed up, pushed in clutch an off I was going to go. Jeep stop, ok no issue turn key and lets get to the base. No joy.... read over several threads replaced the following:

pick up coil (inside dist)
coil
ing module
ing switch
cap
rotor

Same issue, I am not the smartest trouble shooter, I can read others post and replace... Now I am open for suggestions... Jeep has been nuttered and was running great, 4 cyl is great milage, even better when not running.

Thoughts?

757-214-3468 Virginia Beach area...




Thanks for reading...

OC

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Last edited by oconnob55; 12-22-2013 at 11:41 AM.. Reason: spelling
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Unread 12-22-2013, 01:25 PM   #2
oconnob55
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Had another set of hands stop by, when turning over, no fire, when release key, quick fire and then off. Is this adjustment to ignition switch? I have loosened and slide to various positions from not turning over to what I had before moving. Rod moves free, no bends for ingnition rod.

Any relays that should be swapped?

OC
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Unread 12-22-2013, 01:37 PM   #3
Cj5Betty
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Check to make sure you have power to the coil when the key is on. You have replaced everything, so now time to see if it is hooked up/working properly
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Unread 12-22-2013, 02:05 PM   #4
oconnob55
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Going to purchase a voltage tester.... more to follow.
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Unread 12-22-2013, 02:08 PM   #5
Cj5Betty
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Simple test light will get you started.
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Unread 12-22-2013, 02:54 PM   #6
oconnob55
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Battery - 12.97
Porclin voltage reducer 12.92 on hot side / 6.0 on reduced side
coil pos side - 6.0 (same as reducer)

These are w/ key on. I did go back and shut key off, I read a on a thread where some had similar no fire while cranking, then fire at last minute when key rolled back to "running" position, still researching for thread. Hoping to resolve this evening or a long walk to work....

OC
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Last edited by oconnob55; 12-22-2013 at 02:54 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Unread 12-22-2013, 03:01 PM   #7
Cj5Betty
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So out of curiosity, how are checking to see if it has spark?
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Unread 12-22-2013, 03:13 PM   #8
oconnob55
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Remove plug, connect to spark plug wire, ground plug with screwdriver to frame, no spark when turning over, as key rolls back to "run" position, I get one spark as it stop turning over.
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Unread 12-22-2013, 03:17 PM   #9
Cj5Betty
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Have you checked your starter solenoid? Don't know your exact setup, but often their are wires going from it to the ignition system, broken, loose, corroded? That is about the only only part you haven't replaced...
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Unread 12-22-2013, 03:19 PM   #10
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Also, can you check the coil wire while it is cranking over to see if it still has power while cranking? The spark at the end but not while cranking is odd...
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Unread 12-22-2013, 03:42 PM   #11
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Wierd is what I thought also, I read that it had something to do with ign switch position. I had a flash under the dash the morning this happened so I assumed the ign switch on top of column. Is there any relays that are associate with ign under the dash? Typing on tablet...
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Unread 12-24-2013, 03:45 PM   #12
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Found the thread with same issues and detailed trouble shooting steps... 80 CJ NO ignition spark
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Unread 12-24-2013, 04:13 PM   #13
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oconnob55 View Post
Battery - 12.97
Porclin voltage reducer 12.92 on hot side / 6.0 on reduced side
coil pos side - 6.0 (same as reducer)

These are w/ key on. I did go back and shut key off, I read a on a thread where some had similar no fire while cranking, then fire at last minute when key rolled back to "running" position, still researching for thread. Hoping to resolve this evening or a long walk to work....

OC
I see an issue here that I would like cleared up...

An '84 with 'Voltage Reducer' ("Porcelain").
There shouldn't be an ignition resistor on an '84, even in a 4 cylinder version.

Do you know what type of ignition it has? Factory looking?

-------------

What you are seeing with your testing is how your ignition is supposed to work when the module or breaker points aren't doing their jobs.

When you apply power to the ignition coil, you 'Saturate' the coil.
When you cut the switch off, you kill that magnetic field saturation, and the coil discharges ONCE...

Your problem is now diagnosed to module, pick up coil or wiring in between the two.
Coil is working...

----------------

Now, there are some guys that have no idea how an ignition works, and they will argue this point, so don't get confused by them, stay on point.
The coil 'Saturates' when the power is 'ON', and it fires when the magnetic field collapses when power to primary is cut off.
Some guys don't realize this, so they argue the point and you can't diagnose without knowing how things work...

-----------------

If you can take a picture of the distributor,
Or describe it accurately, I should be able to help you diagnose this issue correctly...

Does it have the coil in the cap (GM HEI) or is it a remote coil, meaning the coil is beside the distributor?

IS the coil 'Round' or square?
Some 4 cylinder Jeep engines had a GM HEI distributor with remote coil.

Does the coil have a 'Spark Plug' terminal, or a hole in the center for a wire to push into?
----------------------

Spark Plug terminal, 'Square' coil means E-core coil, which means you have a GM HEI style ignition, more than likey...

Round coil with 'Socket' type terminal on top (also called a 'Volcano' style coil) means you have some other type of ignition we need to figure out.

---------------------

The next test will tell me something about your wiring harness,

Test the coil power input to the 'Hot' side of your 'Ceramic' Ignition Resistor.
Test the power WHILE CRANKING THE ENGINE.

Do you have power?

If so, the starter relay is powering up the ignition while the engine is being cranked over,
And that rules out the starter relay/solenoid and it's wiring to the ignition.

-----------------

Now, that leaves two things,
So answer me these questions,

Does the rotor under the distributor cap screw down?

Do you know where the ignition module is?

Is the ignition module under the rotor inside the distributor?

Do you find breaker points under the rotor in the distributor?

.....

If the rotor screws down, it's a GM Delco Remy distributor.
If you find breaker points, someone has swapped distributors on you (Which explains the Ceramic Ignition Resistor...

If you find a module under the rotor, then you have a GM HEI style electronic distributor.
I would change the module and see if that solves your issues.
I would also remove that resistor, it's not needed and it's hard on the module.

-----------

If you find a PUSH ON ROTOR, no screws, we need to start over figuring out what distributor you have...
Things like is there a plastic cover between rotor and distributor internals?
Plastic or metal vacuum advance? Stuff like that...
Again, pictures would help...
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Unread 12-24-2013, 04:53 PM   #14
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Talked to the OP on the phone, basic Jeep/Motorcraft ignition.
Thinks he's found the issue.
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Unread 12-26-2013, 11:49 AM   #15
oconnob55
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Replaced the starter solinoid, no joy.... still the spark when I start to turn over engine and final spark when I release key. Going to exchange ing module and attempt again. Need to hook up battery charger to bring battery back to full charge before it drains to much. Jeep Hammer thanks for detailed info... Going to start working backwards, the starter solinoid when I cut the zip ties fell into parts, now I can see why PO had it tied up.
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