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Unread 10-17-2009, 09:31 AM   #1
Just1970CJ
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77 CJ5 Cant get into gear after rebuild

I am at a point with my restore on my jeep that I thought I was going to be able to take it for a test drive yesterday.

It has 401 , t18a, and a dana 20. I stuck a centerforce dual friction clutch in it and used a national throw out bearing #614115 that I was told is the same as the centerforce N1439.

I also converted to a parts mike hyd clutch setup which I am 99.9% sure is installed correctly and bled out good.

Problem is I can get the jeep in gear while its running, it just grinds. Also with the motor off in gear and the clutch pushed in I cant push it.

I yanked the trans out last night and cant find anything wrong at all. Clutch disk installed correctly and everything lined up good. only thing I did notice is the clutch seemed to be torque down alittle hard but I had a hard time believing that would cause the problem. Also the pilot bushing is new and fits the input shaft and I see no damage to the bushing or shaft.

I am getting pretty decent throw on the fork lever. The pivot ball is also in place, I checked that.

Only thing I can think is that maybe I was misinformed and the 614115 bearing is not the same as the N1439 bearing???

Anyone have any ideas, I was really hoping to take this thing a spin this weekend after a year of putting it together.

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Unread 10-17-2009, 02:04 PM   #2
Just1970CJ
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well stuck everything back together again thinking that maybe the clutch bolts were torqued to hard or maybe something mis aligned but no luck still the same thing.

I am thinking it has to be the throw out bearing as I dont know what else it could possibly be?

Unless there is some way I am not getting enough throw out of my slave cylinder?
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Unread 10-18-2009, 08:03 AM   #3
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I am out of ideas on this I measured my throw on at the end of the fork where the rod for the hyd. setup hits it and I am only getting about an 1 1/8" throw out of it. Is this enough to disengage the clutch. I thought I read somewhere that I needed about an 1 1/2" for it to work for a 10.5 clutch.

I dont see anyway to possibly get anymore throw out of it. I tired pulling that rod out of it and sticking a longer one in to increase the throw but that didnt really do anything.

If you do crank the motor while its in gear it does lurch forward, same thing with the clutch pushed in all the way.

Could the incorrect throw out bearing cause this?
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Unread 10-18-2009, 08:39 AM   #4
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1-1/8" should be enough throw that you get some clutch movement. Did you set your free play? Should be about 1/2" to 3/4".

Which master?
Which slave?
Which fork?
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Unread 10-18-2009, 08:42 AM   #5
Just1970CJ
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I used this hyd. clutch kit from parts mike. HYDCL00SS HYDRAULIC CLUTCH KIT CJ AND UNIVERSAL

And the fork is the stock one that came in the T18a from when I bought the trans.

Freeplay is also set.
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Unread 10-18-2009, 09:21 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just1970CJ View Post
I used this hyd. clutch kit from parts mike. HYDCL00SS HYDRAULIC CLUTCH KIT CJ AND UNIVERSAL

And the fork is the stock one that came in the T18a from when I bought the trans.

Freeplay is also set.
When you installed the tranny did you remove the stick from the top cover? I would check to see that the shift rails are all lined up in the neutral position by pulling the shifter again. If you pulled it out when in gear and put in back in a different position it would cause you problem. At least it did on mine before I realized what I did I had the same symptoms.
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Unread 10-18-2009, 09:42 AM   #7
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Can you set freeplay to zero and then test? If you get it to disengage (assuming 1-1/8" throw), at least that would let you know if it's in the clutch or in the hydraulics.
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Unread 10-18-2009, 09:49 AM   #8
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I did try setting it at no free play with no difference at all. Also all the shift rails are lined up and everything is good there. I can sit with the motor off and shift threw all the gears with no issues at all.
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Unread 10-18-2009, 09:52 AM   #9
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Could it be that the centerforce throw out bearing is quite a bit longer than the one I have now? I doubt that is the case but who knows..

I tried to see if there is way to get more throw up at where its bolted at the firewall and I am actually bottoming that out with the pedal. So I dont see a problem there.

This really has me stumped. I cant get it to disengage at all, not even alittle bit.

Last edited by Just1970CJ; 10-18-2009 at 01:26 PM..
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Unread 10-18-2009, 10:57 AM   #10
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Here is another strange thing, not sure if it will help.

While the jeep is running if I try and put it in 1st or reverse it will just grind.
Now if I try and stick it 2-4 gear it wont allow it to even try to go in gear but if I bear on the shifter in will inch forward.

With the jeep off I can shift threw all gears just fine.

Would this be just not getting enough throw to diengage the clutch at all or or is something screwy with my clutch?

Last edited by Just1970CJ; 10-18-2009 at 01:27 PM..
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Unread 10-18-2009, 02:06 PM   #11
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do the clutches use special bolts? I just used grade 8 regular hex head bolts to bolt it on as I didnt have any of the stock hardware.
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Unread 10-18-2009, 02:12 PM   #12
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do the clutches use special bolts? I just used grade 8 regular hex head bolts to bolt it on as I didnt have any of the stock hardware.
Ahh, I was going to ask but didn't want to insult when you said everything was installed correctly. Yes, they use special shouldered bolts. Regular grade 8 with threads all the way to the hex could possibly keep the pressure plate from releasing. BTDT.
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Unread 10-18-2009, 02:30 PM   #13
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any ideas on where to get the right bolts or what they are exactly so maybe I can get some at the hardware store.
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Unread 10-18-2009, 02:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just1970CJ View Post
Here is another strange thing, not sure if it will help.

While the jeep is running if I try and put it in 1st or reverse it will just grind.
Now if I try and stick it 2-4 gear it wont allow it to even try to go in gear but if I bear on the shifter in will inch forward.

With the jeep off I can shift threw all gears just fine.

Would this be just not getting enough throw to diengage the clutch at all or or is something screwy with my clutch?
Sounds like the clutch is not disengaging. You're probably right in that you're not getting enough movement to disengage.
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Unread 10-18-2009, 02:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just1970CJ View Post
Here is another strange thing, not sure if it will help.

While the jeep is running if I try and put it in 1st or reverse it will just grind.
Now if I try and stick it 2-4 gear it wont allow it to even try to go in gear but if I bear on the shifter in will inch forward.

With the jeep off I can shift threw all gears just fine.

Would this be just not getting enough throw to diengage the clutch at all or or is something screwy with my clutch?
I think the trans is acting normal. 1st and reverse will grind since they are sliding gears. 2 -4 are synchronizers and the synchros on the T-18 are probably large enough to transfer torque to the mainshaft if you bear down on it the way you describe. You shouldn't do that though, as I don't think you're doing your blocking rings any good.

One question: Is the pressure plate a 3 finger Borg & Beck style or is it a diaphram. If it's a 3 finger, check to see that the fingers (levers) are all at the same height. I had a problem with a 3 finger pressure plate that would not disengage. As it turned out, one of the levers was out of adjustment. I could apply pressure on the 3 fingers one at a time and feel that one required less pressure to pushdown on. I understand yours is brand new but it might be worth it to check it if you're going to pull the whole works out again. Just a suggestion. Hope you get the problem licked.
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