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We have Engo 10k Synthetic IN STOCK!!! Hurry while supplieCustom Axle Work at CCORJEEP Gear Change Packages From ROCKRIDGE 4WD. We Are DIFF

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Unread 02-24-2013, 04:20 PM   #76
teh603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadamsnv View Post
I don't really know what exactly you are asking about @_@

I'm sure it's me.
Well, what do you feel when you have the wheels and drums off, and are just turning the hub by hand?

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Unread 02-24-2013, 05:41 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teh603
Well, what do you feel when you have the wheels and drums off, and are just turning the hub by hand?
I expect disk brakes to be totally smooth with some minor brake rub and possibly I can feel the spider gears meshing if the hubs are locked in.

With drums, I feel all kinds of weird stuff going on.

If I wiggle (rotate) either back and forth quickly I can feel backlashes clicking against each other.

If you think you have a bad wheel bearing in the front, I grab the rotor and see if it has any movement in any way other than rotation. If there is, it's probably bad.

If you think a rear bearing is bad, grab the lug studs (usually with nuts partially threaded for grip) and lift up on the axle. A tiny amount of play is okay, but a lot spells a bad bearing.
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Unread 02-24-2013, 08:09 PM   #78
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Ok, new update time. Did a bit more work today, which I probably shouldn't have considering my shoulder is all kinds of out of whack.

The rear driveshaft is finally down. Here's the end that gave me the worst headache- the spot where it U-bolts down to the rear axle:



Those U-bolts were a pain in the butt to remove. One side came out fairly easy; I whacked it a bit with a screwdriver and a rubber mallet, then jammed it in between the U-joint and U-bolt and out it came. The other side... yeah. I actually had to use the removed U-bolt and use it as a horseshoe-shaped punch with the rubber mallet, and that finally broke it free. Now if only I'd thought about that half an hour earlier...

Edit: Ouch, looks like the pinion shaft yoke's broken.



The end on the transfer case. This one was a fair shake easier. Put the box wrench on it, whack the wrench a few (dozen) times with the rubber mallet, and they broke loose. Only thing that bugs me is that the studs are loose in their holes. Is that how they're supposed to be, or did I break something?



The driveshaft itself. I'm probably going to rebuild it (and the front as well) about the time I pull the body off to put on the fiberglass one. U-joints are relatively cheap, and the U-bolts themselves were in pretty bad shape. I'm surprised I didn't break one of them when I removed it; there was some bad spalling on it.



Final pic of the Jeep as it sits now waiting for a hub puller and a trip to the media blaster. Although I might wait on media blasting until I've got the E-brake off the T-case, so I can get everything done at once. Once everything's been blasted, I'm probably going to paint it to help keep it from rusting again.

Hm... Indian Ceramic brake drums?
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Unread 02-24-2013, 09:55 PM   #79
Dadamsnv
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Yeah man, that yoke is toast! I bet it feels good to make some progress. I hope your shoulder feels better.
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Unread 02-25-2013, 06:39 AM   #80
teh603
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Yeah man, that yoke is toast! I bet it feels good to make some progress. I hope your shoulder feels better.
Whoo yeah. feels real good. First progress that's been made on it since we put it back in the barn.

You wouldn't know off the top of your head the size of the pinion shaft nut, or how to grab the yoke and stop it from turning, would you? I'm seriously thinking about fixing this little problem before moving on to pulling the hubs.
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Unread 02-25-2013, 10:58 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teh603
Whoo yeah. feels real good. First progress that's been made on it since we put it back in the barn.

You wouldn't know off the top of your head the size of the pinion shaft nut, or how to grab the yoke and stop it from turning, would you? I'm seriously thinking about fixing this little problem before moving on to pulling the hubs.
I can certainly figure it out for you (I have the socket in my tool box); however, you have to be careful playing with the pinion nut because there is a one time use crush sleeve on the pinion, and if you slam a new yoke on and retighten that nut, you may overload the bearings.

With that being said, the best way to change a yoke without changing the sleeve would be to take rotational torque reading of the pinion, zap the nut off with on impact, or use the holding tool and a huge cheater, use a puller to yank the yoke off, swap yokes and seals for good measure, you may have to lightly tap the new one on until the nut can bite the threads, then slam the nut back in until you reach the same rotational torque as before disregarding the nut torque.

Or if you plan to rebuild the diff, just wait until you do that so you can use a new crush sleeve.
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Unread 02-25-2013, 11:16 AM   #82
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Here is the mini torque gauge I use for rotational torque on pinions. Set it up on the pinion nut and use the torque wrench to turn the pinion while you look at the rotational torque.
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Unread 02-25-2013, 07:03 PM   #83
teh603
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Originally Posted by Dadamsnv View Post
I can certainly figure it out for you (I have the socket in my tool box); however, you have to be careful playing with the pinion nut because there is a one time use crush sleeve on the pinion, and if you slam a new yoke on and retighten that nut, you may overload the bearings.
Wait, hunh? So how do you adjust the backlash if tightening everything down crushes the sleeve? And where is it anyway; I'm looking at a pic of a pinion in the Kaiser Willys catalog and I don't see one.

Edit: Page 197 in the FSM shows a cutaway of the rear axle and diff. Which piece is it?

Edit again: If I've got the yoke over the pinion, and the yoke immobilized, then why shouldn't I be able to just torque the nut back to factory spec? That hopefully shouldn't damage anything as long as I replace the oil seal.

Quote:
Or if you plan to rebuild the diff, just wait until you do that so you can use a new crush sleeve.
I was hoping to avoid that considering the diff is in relatively good condition.
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Unread 02-25-2013, 10:14 PM   #84
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I'll try my best to explain the crush sleeve with my eloquent speech.

so first you have the pinion nut, then the washer, then the yoke, then some type of oil slinger, then the outside pinion bearing, then that bearing's race, then the crush sleeve in order. one end of the crush sleeve sits up against a shoulder on the pinion and the other end against the outside bearing. The idea is, as you tighten the pinion nut to apply the proper preload to the bearings, the crush sleeve crushes under the torque. This puts a very large load on the nut so it will stay put long after the bearings have been preloaded.

Imagine just tightening a nut without the crush sleeve. once you reached bearing preload, it would be imperative to keep that nut from moving. even an 1/8" turn on the nut in either direction could load the bearings too hard or cause slop in the system. most people use loctite as well as the crush sleeve to really lock that nut in place.

so in essence, the crush sleeve keeps the nut from moving.

Also, pinion nut torque is very unimportant when compared to bearing preload. you tighten the nut until the bearing preload is just right and NOT TO A SPECIFIED TORQUE! However the torque must be relatively high, hence the possible need for a new crush sleeve, or tightening the pinon nut as tight as possible without loading your bearings beyond what they were originally.

one final thought. the bearing preload (crushing of the crush sleeve) does not have any affect on backlash or pinion depth. those are controlled by shims pressed behind the bearings.
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Unread 03-07-2013, 04:07 PM   #85
teh603
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Brown Santa came today!



Here's the load for going up to the barn during spring break: differential gasket, new pinion shaft yoke and oil seal, rear hub/drum puller, and two sockets. One socket for the OTHER castle nut (and eventually both; the ones Kaiser Willys sells are both that size) and one for the yoke nut.

Question time.

When driving the oil seal, do I drive it from the raised inner area, or the lower outer area?

Do I need a special gasket sealer for the diff, or do I just cut the old one off, slap a new one on, and just bolt right up?

What oil do you prefer in a Dana 44?
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Unread 03-07-2013, 06:18 PM   #86
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I love brown Santa!

Q1: the seal should go in like this...

image-2217204784.jpg

This is my tcase, but same concept. Pound the seal in flush with the hole it's going in. I use a little sealer around the outside of the seal because I hate leaks, but that's your call

Q2: I peel my old covers off, clean off all the sealer from the cover and diff housing sealing surfaces (if there is any) with a wire brush after a good scraping. Then i clean both surfaces really well with brake cleaner. Then I apply a large bead of sealer to the diff housing seal surface, and put the diff cover on tightening the bolts until the sealer starts to squeeze out of the cover. Then I let it sit for 2 or so hours and tighten the bolts down 1/4 to 1/2 turn or until somewhat tight if its beyond 1/2 turn. The goal, for me, is to have it be 1/2 turn until the bolts are decently tight. Then wait 24 hous and add fluid. I don't bother with gaskets on diffs, they always leak.

Q3: I like Lucas 80w-90 (autozone has it) for my diffs, tcase, and tranny. You can't really get GL4 in my area so I went with an easy to find but good GL5. In my trucks d44 I use Richmond 75w-140 at $22 bucks a quart @_@
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Unread 04-14-2013, 06:50 AM   #87
teh603
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First real update in a while. Will post more in a bit. After two months of doing practically nothing, I managed to make progress. Got the brake drums off, wire wheeled, and painted- the parts house only had red, so I'm kinda stuck with it for a while. Differential got uncapped, and is now refilled and re-gasketed. Put 32 ounces of 80w90 into it, and scraped out a double-handful of heavy black sludge. Nice that O'Reilly recycles oil.

Turns out there is no crush sleeve on a Dana 44 or 25. They use shims to set bearing preload.

Front brakes seem to be 10" drums instead of 9." Still debating whether or not to go disc. Probably won't right now since 10" drums are available.

Having trouble with the front spindle, will post pics in a bit.
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Unread 04-14-2013, 12:16 PM   #88
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Good new on the pinions being shimmed. That's the best way to do it in my opinion. I've heard of people grenading gear sets because the crush sleeve failed. Can't fail nearly as easy with shim, AND, it makes replacing yokes and seals a breeze.
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Unread 04-14-2013, 07:54 PM   #89
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wow...... looking forward to how this turns out.
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Unread 04-16-2013, 05:19 AM   #90
teh603
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Okies, slight update. It looks like the Loc-o-matic hubs (and no, they aren't salveagable) weren't completely removed, and I going to have to get an allen set and maybe a teeny weeny punch as well. And a measurement on the yoke nut, because its much bigger than 1 1/16".

As the Nabisco Thing said, "More to come."
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