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Unread 03-07-2013, 09:06 PM   #121
copauls863
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I would say the knock sensor just depends on the setup, my howell didnt have one on it but it was also using the stock ignition... a knock sensor is there to help control your advance on your ignition. . . and since your running the tbi and the computer is also in control of the ignition, i would say you need it... although my brothers chevy seems to run fine without it... but who knows hahah. . . anyways all that it does is if the computer advances the ignition too far, and it picks up a knock, it sends this info back to the computer so it can retard the timing and keep your engine running where it should be. . . so i could see this causing some issues without one

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Unread 03-07-2013, 09:21 PM   #122
motormike24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
Trying to be helpful...

Matt
well hot dam dude... i never knew that was a knock sensor, since i have never seen one mounted on an intake, always been on the block with all the 350's 327's 454's and all the gm motors and a lot of the fords ive messed with... so yea never even occurred to me. thought maybe it was an IAT. but now that i know that, i can wire it in. so im assuming that MIGHT be why it falters until warm? or is that sensor not cruicial enough to cause that? i know the basic operation, but have ran many 4.3's and 3.8's without even having either knock sensor hooked up without issues beyond a check engine light... and thanks man. just let me know what you think.
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Unread 03-07-2013, 09:43 PM   #123
Matt1981CJ7
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Dude, I could have had at least 3 different carbs running on that thing 2 weeks ago. But, I don't have a clue about FI.

I try to follow these threads to learn something...

So far, I've learned I'll be sticking with my old "fogger" for a while.

Matt
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Unread 03-08-2013, 03:20 AM   #124
86cj74.2L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thompsoj22
your right, i understood your post, but the terminology/component discription and software decisions sounded allmost like "work". im just starving for old school simplicity in life and it is going away so quickly it scares me. ill probably end up with MPI eventually, simple common sense effeciency that cant be disputed. im still struggling with a BBD feedback carb that has proven to be the most antiquated complex nightmare design that i have ever attempted to bring back to OE specs. thanks for the calm response, undoubtedly an effect of the "book" you study.
If your throttle shaft has a lot of play in it. (1/32 or so) it needs rebushed. If you move the throttle and the rod going up to the accelerator pump doesn't move as soon as you touch the throttle, its time. Which causes off idle hesitation. Plus the carter you don't just slap together. Both the needle barrel and accelerator pump arm have a setup procedure.
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Unread 03-08-2013, 03:25 AM   #125
86cj74.2L
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ECT is your engine coolant temp sensor and if its failed its doing a lot of guessing at your fuel curves. I suspect its running pig rich in open loop which could be all of your off idle bogging or however you described it.
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Unread 03-08-2013, 05:14 AM   #126
jeepardy
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Originally Posted by 86cj74.2L View Post
ECT is your engine coolant temp sensor and if its failed its doing a lot of guessing at your fuel curves. I suspect its running pig rich in open loop which could be all of your off idle bogging or however you described it.
Actually in this instance I think Mike means Electronically Controlled Timing which in 7747 lingo is EST (Electronic Spark Timing) as most of the codes refer to that. circuit 24 (VSS sensor) 42 (Bypass) 43 (knock Sensor)

To MotorMike; The 258's knock sensor will work as it's optimized for 5550 hz, The VSS from the Wrangler will work but it is a 4 pulse signal and will not perform very well unless you get a signal reducer which costs just as much as the proper VSS. I use a rosta universal myself.

Your never gonna get rid of code 54 until you get rid of that fuel toggle switch and let the ECM control the fuel pump. The ECM really wants to prime that pump.

I don't know if the code 42 is because it is an open circuit or closed. But I thought you said there was no change in timing so I would double check that circuit

Last edited by jeepardy; 03-08-2013 at 05:18 AM.. Reason: sp adding
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Unread 03-08-2013, 07:31 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copauls863 View Post
I would say the knock sensor just depends on the setup, my howell didnt have one on it but it was also using the stock ignition...
Howell is so pared down so much from what the stock GM TBI systems are from the beginning that you can't really compare Howell to anything but another Howell setup. They remove the electronic spark timing, knock sensor, VSS, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepardy View Post
Your never gonna get rid of code 54 until you get rid of that fuel toggle switch and let the ECM control the fuel pump. The ECM really wants to prime that pump.
^^This^^ I don't quite understand why it isn't being used as designed. It would have been a LOT less work to start out with a GM harness from the beginning.
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Unread 03-08-2013, 11:40 AM   #128
motormike24
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the reason i never hooked up the fuel pump relay and ran it to the ecm as designed is because as ive made mention many times, im very uneducated in regards to electrical systems. i know the basics of how it functions, but even reading electrical diagrams are at times like learning calculus for me (which im also clueless about) lol. so, i figured if i could take what i knew about how the system works physically, and combine it with a basic electrical setup as per my current knowledge, i could simplify it and have to do less advanced wiring. keep in mind, all that wiring had been completed long before i came into any of the new info you guys have given me on this thread. so in hindsight, yea it probably would have been just as easy to wire it into the computer with a relay. but the other reason i did it was to simplify future diagnostics of certain conditions, such as no start's or whatever. since any engine needs 4 things to run, its much easier to diagnose why my fuel pump isnt working if its only got the pump, 2 wires, a fuse, and a switch to inspect, vs wondering if its a bad relay, a bad computer, etc... same with if i lose injector signal or something, i have a light that comes on to let me know that my ecm is receiving power from my switch, so i know if it blew a fuse or something. that was my whole idea for doing that setup. plus this way we can turn the key off and leave the jeep running and nobody could jump in and steal it because it locks the steering column .

anyway, in regards to the VSS being the incorrect type, is the other sensor that you said you are using also a dual purpose sensor? meaning can i still keep the cable driven speedo AND have a 2 wire hookup for the ecm? i am going to unhook the battery for a half hour or so today and do some wire tucking and hopefully it will run better after the computer resets. then will also double check my base timing again, make sure im still at 0. also going to give my homemade obd1 to serial port unit another go today to see if i can get winaldl to get some readings from it. thanks again guys!
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Unread 03-08-2013, 01:20 PM   #129
jeepardy
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Hey Mike, I'm working on a friends jeep replacing floorboards right now, I live over by Holland. I will pm you my phone number if ya want to give me a call. I could walk you through winaldl a lot quicker that way.
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Unread 03-08-2013, 02:33 PM   #130
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24 is the speed sensor

42 €“ Bypass or Electronic Spark Timing circuit - The EST signal did not change when the ECM applied bypass voltage to the ignition module.

43 €“ Knock Sensor Ciruit - Knock sensor signal was either above 3.5 volts or below 1.5 volts for at least 20 seconds.

54 €“ Fuel Pump Circuit
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Unread 03-08-2013, 02:42 PM   #131
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ok, i hooked up the knock sensor and it still gives me knock sensor code on winaldl, its my only code now. however, the way it runs has not changed one little bit. i thought i was doing great having datalogging goin on during our 20 minute drive earlier since i got my custom rig to hook up and actually work finally, but i had a wire come loose during hard accel gettin on the highway and it froze winaldl (doh!!!!) so i hit save, it said it saved, yet no txt log. i fixed the wire and it saved THAT little 20 second test log... grrr. had all kinds of BLM data (not that i have one bit of clue what any of the numbers mean), so will go out on another drive in a bit. is there any of you guys that would be able to read that log file and tell me what the hell it means and if it says why it surges so bad cold? and it still seems to run imbalanced more than i think it should at all times of idle, hot and cold. if your on the gas even the slightest bit it doesnt miss a beat. thanks again
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Unread 03-08-2013, 04:21 PM   #132
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During warmup while its surging record the data and cut and paste it to the forum.

At cold startup after its sat for at least 8 hours turn on ignition and hook up your program and record what the throttle body temp is as well as the engine coolant temp. Then compare those temps to outside temp or garage temp......

Surging is lean.

Also while driving after engine is up to temp make sure your in Closed Loop.
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Unread 03-08-2013, 06:22 PM   #133
motormike24
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Originally Posted by 86cj74.2L View Post
During warmup while its surging record the data and cut and paste it to the forum.

At cold startup after its sat for at least 8 hours turn on ignition and hook up your program and record what the throttle body temp is as well as the engine coolant temp. Then compare those temps to outside temp or garage temp......

Surging is lean.

Also while driving after engine is up to temp make sure your in Closed Loop.
well, i thought all was well in the winaldl department, so went for another 20 min drive both city and highway, only to find out at the end of the trip even tho it said it saved the datalog and even gave me the name of the text file, a thorough search of my whole computer shoes it does not exist. i did it 6 times in a row and each time it gave me a new txt file name, yet none are actually on the computer. now im pissed. it saved 2 or 3 test log files i made just running it previously, but now wont actually save them. wtf. i did some screenshots of each tab at the end of the drive but i seriously doubt that is going to help much, maybe the BDL tab might still help, but i still got no clue what it all means. this is so irritating.
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Unread 03-08-2013, 06:26 PM   #134
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I'm pretty sure there is a hole forum dedicated to windal and how to use it.

Just look at your coolant temp and throttle body temp. Make sure both are within 5 to 10 degrees of each other as well as that close to the air temp where ever the jeeps at.
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Unread 03-08-2013, 08:08 PM   #135
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alright i figured out my log issue, got that locked down. and as far as throttle body temp, i was not aware of the ecm having such a spot to wire in such a sensor... ive got my coolant temp reading a normal 190 to 200, so idk. but im attaching 2 sets of logs, the one is labeled as stumbles and dies because its what it does when i first start the jeep when cold, although this time it did it and wasnt even completely cold yet, it was about 150 degrees. and that was a short file. the next was taken during a 20 minute drive, starting out city driving, and then a bit highway, and then city til we got home. however this time around, both times we exited the highway speeds, it died. not sure why, seems to be getting slightly worse drivability-wise. so hopefully someone can make sense of this.

oops i guess it wont let me attach .txt files, so i guess no i REALLY dont know what to do?

Last edited by motormike24; 03-08-2013 at 08:08 PM.. Reason: mistaken.
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