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Unread 03-05-2013, 04:02 PM   #106
Jon In Tucson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepardy View Post
Well Mike your bullheaded if nothing else. and that is not an insult. But I think you are expecting alot out of the learning curve of this ECM. These "computers" have a whopping 32K for the prom and are measured in nanosecs for speed. In otherwords they are small and slow. The only thing it learns is the BLM and that is lost everytime the computer looses power. Also the only thing the speed sensor will do is improve MPG's at highway speeds with no load on the engine as it retards the timing. I have pretty much the same setup on my 258 and I love it. My friends cant believe that when its -5 deg here I can reach in and turn the key and it fires like a camp.
If there is one thing I don't like about it is the slight stumble I get on accel. But I've come to the conclusion that because the ECM is really for a v-6 and I have it in an I-6 the distance the fuel has to travel in the intake manifold is farther than what it is set up for. To correct this I will need to burn a new chip with new acceleration enrichment settings. But for that I would need some better software and a burner. Not the priority for that $300.00.


ps If your friend cares about it, I get 17mpg on 33's with 3.23 gears and a TF999 trans. And got 21 mpg's all highway on a trip to the U.P. Wheeling that's a different story
Jeepardy,
Moates makes the programmer and the software to use for less than $300.00 I don't remember exactly what the programmer was but the software was around $69. Mine is the "Flash and Burn" if I remember.
Another option is to send your BLM's to Bill USN-1 on the binderplanet.com and he can tweak your spark and fuel maps for the performance you desire.

It does get pretty fun to take a ride, download the BLM, tweak the fuel map, burn the EEPROM and try it again. God bless.
Jon In Tucson

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Unread 03-05-2013, 04:47 PM   #107
86cj74.2L
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TunerCat also has software. And the ability to turn off sections of the program that are not needed.
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Unread 03-05-2013, 09:15 PM   #108
Jon In Tucson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 86cj74.2L View Post
TunerCat also has software. And the ability to turn off sections of the program that are not needed.
86,
I had the tunercat program, and just couldn't get used to it. Not that anything was wrong with it, just my comfort zone. I mostly smoothed out the maps till I got the 128's I needed on the BLM for the fuel map. God bless.
Jon In Tucson
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"The secret to a Jeep, especially a CJ, is you can't
panic." - Mike

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Unread 03-05-2013, 10:31 PM   #109
86cj74.2L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon In Tucson

86,
I had the tunercat program, and just couldn't get used to it. Not that anything was wrong with it, just my comfort zone. I mostly smoothed out the maps till I got the 128's I needed on the BLM for the fuel map. GOd bless.
Jon In Tucson
I thought their was a interface that allowed you to use the LM wide band AF monitor and merge its readings into tunercat and it would smooth out the bumps for you.........

All this knowledge is from looking at what to do for myself for the TBI upgrade back in 06 or so. I figured out the BBD and just never pursued the fuel injection.

For future reference for others (and myself) what did you end up with. Software, burner, wise?
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Unread 03-06-2013, 09:15 AM   #110
Jon In Tucson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 86cj74.2L View Post
I thought their was a interface that allowed you to use the LM wide band AF monitor and merge its readings into tunercat and it would smooth out the bumps for you.........

All this knowledge is from looking at what to do for myself for the TBI upgrade back in 06 or so. I figured out the BBD and just never pursued the fuel injection.

For future reference for others (and myself) what did you end up with. Software, burner, wise?
86,

I miss spoke in my earlier post... Do I sound presidential? I did buy the Tunercat program, and the Moats BURN2 programmer. I was using two tuning programs on a trial basis and one was difficult for me to use compared to the other.
I also bought 3-27SF512 EEPROMs and a 24 pin DIP socket to install on my ECM. I removed the factory socket to accommodate the 512 memory proms. I should have bought 2 of the DIP sockets and modified my spare ECM, just in case. I made my own ALDL cable from the schematic posted on #92 and bought a USB to DB9 adapter on the web, and managed to get the whole shebang to work. At the time I didn't own a laptop to log data, so I used my lovely bride's. I was walking on very thin ice there... I suppose that all total my investment was under $200 into the whole programming thing from soup to nuts. I'm very pleased with the results: instantaneous cold starts, improved gas mileage (sometimes 17 MPG if I am light on the skinny pedal), and more power to climb than I am willing unleash. God bless.
Jon In Tucson
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Jeremiah 17:7 "But blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, whose confidence in Him."

"The secret to a Jeep, especially a CJ, is you can't
panic." - Mike

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Unread 03-07-2013, 05:20 PM   #111
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all that kinda got me lost as far as burning the chips and whatnot, because of my lack of electrical knowledge. my current issue is this. i now have installed a check engine light (which works exactly as its sposed to), and attempted to wire in the ALDL connector from the same donor truck i obtained all the other parts from. however, ive hit a brick wall. i even went so far as to follow the only diagram i could find after hours of searching online to create a serial cable to obd1 cable to connect to my laptop for use with winaldl. program works great, however, after further scouring the internet, i could not find all of the diagrams i need to connect all wires from aldl connector to the ecm. i even went over the binderplanet EFI stuff as ive been repeatedly asked to do (which turns out its actually VERY helpful), and i have 6 or 7 wires comming from the connector, but only diagrams or info on where to connect 3 of them to the ecm. i have the DLC ground hooked directly to battery ground, the orange wire for pin E running to A8, and pin B to A9. however, i cant find anywhere what ecm wire to connect to the rest of them. for example, normally on an obd1 vehicle i should be able to put a paperclip between the A and M terminals on the DLC, and make it flash me codes. since i cant find where to hook the M wire to, i cant even do that. grrr. i hate wiring. LOL. as for the rest of the wires, i dont know if i need them for this set up or not, but im ordering the cable to connect USB to obd1 DLC tonight, so that hopefully after someone helps me with the DLC wiring i can get further info from the ECM to troubleshoot a few things. any and all help will be greatly appreciated. and as someone said a few posts back, yea i am bullheaded. i blame my mother, so i apologize, lol. thanks again guys.
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Unread 03-07-2013, 05:53 PM   #112
thompsoj22
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Yikes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon In Tucson View Post
86,

I miss spoke in my earlier post... Do I sound presidential? I did buy the Tunercat program, and the Moats BURN2 programmer. I was using two tuning programs on a trial basis and one was difficult for me to use compared to the other.
I also bought 3-27SF512 EEPROMs and a 24 pin DIP socket to install on my ECM. I removed the factory socket to accommodate the 512 memory proms. I should have bought 2 of the DIP sockets and modified my spare ECM, just in case. I made my own ALDL cable from the schematic posted on #92 and bought a USB to DB9 adapter on the web, and managed to get the whole shebang to work. At the time I didn't own a laptop to log data, so I used my lovely bride's. I was walking on very thin ice there... I suppose that all total my investment was under $200 into the whole programming thing from soup to nuts. I'm very pleased with the results: instantaneous cold starts, improved gas mileage (sometimes 17 MPG if I am light on the skinny pedal), and more power to climb than I am willing unleash. God bless.
Jon In Tucson
So your 20 miles from the nearest paved road and it wont start!. is it fuel/spark/mechanical?. carburated, ill give you an answer in 2 minutes. injected,: confused:
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Unread 03-07-2013, 05:57 PM   #113
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Unread 03-07-2013, 06:28 PM   #114
Jon In Tucson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motormike24 View Post
all that kinda got me lost as far as burning the chips and whatnot, because of my lack of electrical knowledge. my current issue is this. i now have installed a check engine light (which works exactly as its sposed to), and attempted to wire in the ALDL connector from the same donor truck i obtained all the other parts from. however, ive hit a brick wall. i even went so far as to follow the only diagram i could find after hours of searching online to create a serial cable to obd1 cable to connect to my laptop for use with winaldl. program works great, however, after further scouring the internet, i could not find all of the diagrams i need to connect all wires from aldl connector to the ecm. i even went over the binderplanet EFI stuff as ive been repeatedly asked to do (which turns out its actually VERY helpful), and i have 6 or 7 wires comming from the connector, but only diagrams or info on where to connect 3 of them to the ecm. i have the DLC ground hooked directly to battery ground, the orange wire for pin E running to A8, and pin B to A9. however, i cant find anywhere what ecm wire to connect to the rest of them. for example, normally on an obd1 vehicle i should be able to put a paperclip between the A and M terminals on the DLC, and make it flash me codes. since i cant find where to hook the M wire to, i cant even do that. grrr. i hate wiring. LOL. as for the rest of the wires, i dont know if i need them for this set up or not, but im ordering the cable to connect USB to obd1 DLC tonight, so that hopefully after someone helps me with the DLC wiring i can get further info from the ECM to troubleshoot a few things. any and all help will be greatly appreciated. and as someone said a few posts back, yea i am bullheaded. i blame my mother, so i apologize, lol. thanks again guys.
Mike,
To get the bare bones operation from the ALDL or OBD1 port, you just need 3 of the pins connected. Different years and models of GM used those additional pins for more complex diagnostic tasks.

So, if you have pin A on the OBD1 connector (top row right side) Black wire /white trace to D1 or system ground, you're good.

Pin B, (2nd to right, top row) White wire/black tracer to A9 on ECM, you got the diagnostic terminal done, You're able to take a wire/ paperclip, connect the A and B terminals, turn on the key and get your codes. You'll always get a long flash and 2 short flashes or Code 12 at the beginning and the end of the codes sequence. Code 12 is no distributor pulse, normal for a key on, no engine run condition.

Now the last wire I have on my Junk Yard TBI system is the serial data, pin E on the OBD1 connector(top row second from the left), orange wire/white tracer. It connects to pin A8 on the ECM. This one you gotta have if you want to log data.

I saw that you got a speed sensor earlier, it needs to be a 2 pulse type or the ECM won't know how to handle the information given it. I found out the hard way and have a 4 pulse to sell...

When you get your data cable, don't be surprised if you have some snags getting the communication to happen. The ECM transmit data at the dazzling speed of 160 baud. This is 160 bits per second. Your laptop is at least 100 times faster in receiving data than the ECM can send it out. You may have to play with the port speed rates to get everything working. I had to set the port to 4800 baud to get the communication started. Your laptop is like a FA-18 flying at about Mach 2 and the ECM you have is like the biplane the Red Baron flew. You're on the home stretch, keep on keeping on. God bless.
Jon In Tucson.
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Jeremiah 17:7 "But blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, whose confidence in Him."

"The secret to a Jeep, especially a CJ, is you can't
panic." - Mike

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Unread 03-07-2013, 06:46 PM   #115
Jon In Tucson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thompsoj22 View Post
So your 20 miles from the nearest paved road and it wont start!. is it fuel/spark/mechanical?. carburated, ill give you an answer in 2 minutes. injected,: confused:
Thompsoj22,
Troubleshooting a no start on a TBI engine is the same procedure you use on a carbureted engine.

The question that really should be asked: "So you're 20 miles from the nearest paved road and it won't start.
Do you have the parts to fix the problem you diagnosed in 2 minutes?"
Or, do my trail riding buds have to tow me back to pavement? God bless.
Jon In Tucson
__________________
Jeremiah 17:7 "But blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, whose confidence in Him."

"The secret to a Jeep, especially a CJ, is you can't
panic." - Mike

"I may not be a smart man, Jenny, but I do know grounds."
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Unread 03-07-2013, 08:16 PM   #116
motormike24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon In Tucson View Post
Thompsoj22,
Troubleshooting a no start on a TBI engine is the same procedure you use on a carbureted engine.

The question that really should be asked: "So you're 20 miles from the nearest paved road and it won't start.
Do you have the parts to fix the problem you diagnosed in 2 minutes?"
Or, do my trail riding buds have to tow me back to pavement? God bless.
Jon In Tucson
LMAO you are so right on that one. thats great . i realized i had not finished crimping the B terminal butt connector, so i did that and got nice codes. they were 24, 42, 43, 54. ECT failure, Knock sensor (i dont have one, hope thats not a big deal), and other ECT related issues. it reminded me that since i had set base timing with the disconnect unhooked initially, i have not disconncted the battery. maybe those codes are still there due to that, and MAYBE (just a theory here) its causing my computer to get goofy a bit when cold. cuz it surges to 2k, and down to 500 or less rpms and sometimes dies when cold. once its warm it runs great, just slightly imbalanced. sooooo, hopefully this will help. and in regards to the VSS, i had not known about the difference in the types. does anyone know if the one i have which is the factory dual purpose speed sensor from the 91 wrangler (has both 2 wire electrical connection AND speedo cable hookups on one unit) is gonna work for this? thanks again guys you are my saving grace.
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Unread 03-07-2013, 08:28 PM   #117
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Work on your engine coolant temp sensor problems first. Then look at the knock sensor. Especially since your using the ignition from the fuel injection.
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Unread 03-07-2013, 08:45 PM   #118
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got me there

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon In Tucson View Post
Thompsoj22,
Troubleshooting a no start on a TBI engine is the same procedure you use on a carbureted engine.

The question that really should be asked: "So you're 20 miles from the nearest paved road and it won't start.
Do you have the parts to fix the problem you diagnosed in 2 minutes?"
Or, do my trail riding buds have to tow me back to pavement? God bless.
Jon In Tucson
your right, i understood your post, but the terminology/component discription and software decisions sounded allmost like "work". im just starving for old school simplicity in life and it is going away so quickly it scares me. ill probably end up with MPI eventually, simple common sense effeciency that cant be disputed. im still struggling with a BBD feedback carb that has proven to be the most antiquated complex nightmare design that i have ever attempted to bring back to OE specs. thanks for the calm response, undoubtedly an effect of the "book" you study.
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Unread 03-07-2013, 08:45 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 86cj74.2L View Post
Work on your engine coolant temp sensor problems first. Then look at the knock sensor. Especially since your using the ignition from the fuel injection.
as i said, i dont have a knock sensor. i dont see where the stock 4.2 engine came with a spot to put one, and im not up for drilling and tapping any holes in the block, so im really hoping its not required for this setup. and what makes you say i have CTS issues? jw.
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Unread 03-07-2013, 09:06 PM   #120
Matt1981CJ7
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Trying to be helpful...

Matt
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