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Unread 03-09-2013, 04:58 PM   #151
motormike24
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absolutely thompsoj22! if i can ever get it running right. as of right now it seems the closer i get to having all the required pieces and parts hooked up and working, the worse it runs and the dumber i look. LOL. right now you'd never know it was tbi, sounds like a damn carter carb, only it pops on all cylinders just rough idle and it lopes and surges most of the time. and dies during surging when cold. grrrrr... i now have the ESC module all wired in as per the chiltons manual electrical diagram that bill's write up did not include. 0 change. however, i did disconnect the timing bypass again verify it was still at 0, which it wasnt. it was at about 3, maybe 2. probably not a huge deal, but i set it back to 0 AGAIN. not sure how a locked down distributor changes base timing on its own, but it did. so now its back at 0, and when i hooked the bypass back up, it resumed computer timing control as expected, and still ran crappy. i snap the throttle and its instant response and runs perfect, but, idling is a mess still. i even tried adjusting the set screw for idle after removing the plug that covers it up. i got the idle down to 900 rpms when hot, but thats with the throttle bottomed out and screw barely even in the threads anymore. im checking voltages shortly, but i fear they will all be as expected. which still leaves me scratching my head.

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Unread 03-09-2013, 05:23 PM   #152
86cj74.2L
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If you can't idle it down to stalling with the IAC closed off then it seems you have a pretty major vacuum leak.

PS Carter's are not junk. I can make any one of them work, without having to fiddle with it all the time. It's just all of them are 30 years old and need certain age and wear related issues repaired.
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Unread 03-09-2013, 06:03 PM   #153
motormike24
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so heres an update. i tried doing that iac reset procedure, and it seemed to work a little, but even with the iac AND tps completely unplugged, it idles lower however still surges kinda, just not as severely. but it doesnt stall even with the iac all the way closed, so im puzzled at where i could be leaking vacuum. the only place i can think of is between the 2-piece adapter place for the tbi., but i used a lot of that copper head gasket spray between them, but and the last time i took them apart it took 30 mins of gentle prying with a razor blade and tiny flat head screwdriver, LOL. but i might be able to rtv the mating surfaces. i still dont think they are leaking tho.

i took a test drive after i had unplugged the MAP sensor, as i was so frustrated i just started unplugging sensors til something changed, and with both tps and iac plugged in, but map unplugged, it ran beautiful. i mean the best i've ever heard this thing run. ever. so we drove it. still ran great, no surging, no dying, nothing. however, as expected, if i punch it at low rpms, it stumbles and falls flat on its face. but its still got instant throttle response otherwise. tried plugging a new one in, and back to the same bs crappy running. now im sincerely confused. cant i have the best of both worlds??? haha. thanks again.
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Unread 03-09-2013, 06:11 PM   #154
CSP
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What adapter are you using? How about some pictures?
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Unread 03-09-2013, 07:22 PM   #155
motormike24
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to take pics id have to tear it back apart again. its a custom rig, had a local machine shop create it. i took them the tbi and the adapter plate that came with the motocraft carb my buddy had bought from someone to them, so they could make the 3 bolt tbi adapt to the 4 bolt intake. the bottom plate he made has just one wide open oval hole in the middle that spans both barrels on intake. that bolts to the intake via the same bolts that held the original adapter plate. then, he has a top plate that has the 2 barrel holes in it to match the tbi unit's holes, but due to certain clearance issues, he had to angle a few spots to allow even flow because of the bolt patterns, and the bolts that hold the tbi go through holes in top plate, and threads into the bottom plate to bind both tbi and top plate to the bottom plate, which is secured to intake via a custom gasket. both plates are made of 1/2" slabs of aluminum and created on a CNC machine. i did the water test to see if it was sucking air between the 2 plates, and the engine did not change at all. so im going to assume its not leaking there. i know its not very helpful without pics, but the phone i had originally taken pics of the plate with got destroyed, so i lost the pics. and i dont have new gaskets currently to take it back apart and put it back together with. and with the vacuum gauge hooked to a port on the intake, it shows at idle (without MAP connected) 21 to 22 in Hg. which according to the gauge is in the good/ok section. i guess let me know if that helps any.
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Unread 03-09-2013, 07:47 PM   #156
86cj74.2L
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Those numbers would be great at 700 rpm.
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Unread 03-09-2013, 08:07 PM   #157
86cj74.2L
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What are you doing with the EGR?

When its not operating properly it acts like many other problems........
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Unread 03-10-2013, 10:47 AM   #158
motormike24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 86cj74.2L View Post
What are you doing with the EGR?

When its not operating properly it acts like many other problems........
i unhooked the vacuum line going to the egr, and put a plug on the valve and the intake port it ran from. as far as i know, its closed completely that way.
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Unread 03-10-2013, 01:18 PM   #159
motormike24
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also, i just removed the iac to see if it was plugged or something, and found the pintle to be very badly worn on one side. so i replaced it, and it still seemed to act up a little at first, but then i seemed to find a happy place (but still prefers a 1000 rpm idle). im going to let it cool down and see if it still acts right then. also, i found coolant to be slowly bubbling up through a valve cover bolt.... not happy. being a fresh head and all. i tightened it down a little bit more and it seemed to stop the flow. we will see.
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Unread 03-10-2013, 01:44 PM   #160
86cj74.2L
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If the pintle was worn that badly its possible that the seating surface is also marred just as bad.

Put it in code flash mode and start it up with the pintle all the way out again and then spray something in the hole it gets its bypass air from and see if it gets sucked through the hole. If it does the Throttle Body is worn. And it would explain why you still can't get idle below 1000.
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Unread 03-10-2013, 04:29 PM   #161
motormike24
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i pulled the tbi again. checked the iac seat, and it seems to be ok. however, i noticed that the various little gaskets between the throttle body and the injectors/regulator were leaking pretty heavy, so i pulled it apart. the pressure regulator spring came out in 4 or 5 small pieces. not happy. so i know that is likely part of my problem, but im not totally convinced that is the entire issue. obviously, i must rebuild this thing be4 i can go any farther, but trying to get a kit within a day or so might prove difficult. so if anyone has any ideas let me know. i can get the regulator kit with diaphragm and spring and the main gasket for 40 at oreilly's parts store, but the other gasket that is leaking is the one above the throttle plates, but below the injectors. not sure what that would be called, but im assuming probably a dealer only part.
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Unread 03-10-2013, 05:09 PM   #162
86cj74.2L
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Don't they have rebuild kits for the TBI's as well? I think their expensive though.
image-886589785.jpg  
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Unread 03-10-2013, 05:31 PM   #163
jeepardy
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which part
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Unread 03-10-2013, 07:05 PM   #164
motormike24
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shortly after i posted that, i found that autozone had a tbi rebuild kit, it had every gasket and seal and everything EXCEPT the spring. and the only place i could find that had one was oreilly's and i had to buy another $40 regulator only kit just to get the dam spring. so yea. 30 for the master kit, yet 40 for the kit that only had a couple gaskets and a diaphragm and the spring. jeeze. so about $70 later, it now runs amazing. doesnt lag or stumble at all when you mash the gas in a low gear, and has balls to the walls. only thing im still not satisfied with is that it still surges just slightly from 800 rpm up to 1200 rpm back n forth afew times when cold, then eventually sits at an idle that fluctuates from 900 to 1000. and when idling it pops a bit out the tailpipe. timing is dead nuts on at 0 degrees with the bypass unhooked, and it seems to find a happy spot around 10 to 12 degrees with the bypass hooked up. i hate rocking the boat when it runs pretty good, but i still dont think it should pop at idle. any suggestions? should i hook my ol laptop back up to it for another run or what?
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Unread 03-10-2013, 07:28 PM   #165
Matt1981CJ7
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Mike, just yankin' your chain a little....

Stock 258, 98K miles, and Weber 38.

I know you'll get the TBI setup, eventually.

Matt

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