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Unread 11-28-2008, 02:00 PM   #1
mike06X
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360 distributor drive gear just shredded itself

now, i read all about mismatching gears; imported gears; aftermarket timing covers, casting flash in oil passages, slop in the distributor hole, cam bearing #1 being installed wrong or without the 360 degree grooves, and the holes in the gears lining up so that oil makes it through.

my question is - i want to fix it right..i didn't build the motor, so i dont know whats in it component wise; its suppose to be a fresh build (less than a year), it came in my cj7 when i got it.

I can see the drive gear is mashed up good; the gear on the distributor (proform billet hei style) looks like its brand new. I know these should be replaced as a set; i'm probably going with the Bulltear matched set - when the cover is off, what else should be done? should I go thru the motions of pulled the cam and checking the #1 bearing? should I just spin the oil pump manually and watch for oil delivery? should i do some type of external oiling modification? should the entire engine be pulled and disassembled due to metal shavings ending up who knows where in oil passages and bearings?

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Unread 11-28-2008, 04:24 PM   #2
scrible
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I had a bad experience with the Bulltear set. Find you an MSD set, mine has been working great for a good while now and I push it hard.
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[B]1981 Jeep CJ-5[/B]
-AMC 360 V8 .030 over, Comp 268H cam, Hedman Fenderwell headers, Edelbrock 600cfm carb, Performer intake, HEI ignition, 3.73 gears, and much more...
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Unread 11-28-2008, 05:20 PM   #3
jksull
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I just ordered a MSD cam gear to go with a new Mallory Dist. Hope I did the wright thing.
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Unread 11-28-2008, 05:45 PM   #4
mike06X
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where you guys ordering from? did you have a failure? at this point i'm pretty sure i need to change both; and i i'll drain the oil and hopefully not find too much metal chips..
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Unread 11-28-2008, 05:52 PM   #5
jksull
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike06X View Post
where you guys ordering from? did you have a failure? at this point i'm pretty sure i need to change both; and i i'll drain the oil and hopefully not find too much metal chips..


I am building a engine as we speak. So no failure.
I have bought all of my parts from Summit.
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Unread 11-28-2008, 09:02 PM   #6
gojeepgo
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I have been reading all the horor stories of wasted cam / dist gears and it has me worried. I want to do an HEI conversion on my 304 but dont want to mess up my motor with the wrong parts. What gear needs to be on the dist. with the stock cam in it now? Can I re-use the gear of my current stock dist and put it on the HEI dist?
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Unread 11-28-2008, 09:42 PM   #7
mike06X
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from what i read; you are suppose to keep the set matched - so if replacing the distributor, you should *not* use the new gear, and re-use your old one on the new distributor..

this seems like a silly problem to have..
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Unread 11-28-2008, 11:11 PM   #8
Fjguercio
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You are safe with the MSD and DUI HEI Distributors for the AMC engines both the 8 & 6 they have the proper gear that is cut correctly with the correct materials. There are also length, diameter, spark grounding on weights/to ground all kinds of crap with many of the offerings in the current market.

The other alternative and a good one is to use MultiSpark Discharge from MSD or Summit and use the Stock type Distributor with the TeamRush larger cap with proper terminals, brass, and wires to fit. This will out perform the HEI and is made for the 4wd AMC engine. This is also less money and is a better ignition.

Here is a good write up by the Author, JeepHammer
http://www.junkyardgenius.com/igniti...EIcompair.html

IF YOU CHOOSE THE HEI???? anything other than the MSD or DUI version is a roll of the dice and you may get craps. As for the question above regards metal filings. The oil filter will capture the metal unless it gets full and the oil by pass gets activated or during cold start up the oil by pass gets activated. If the oil by pass activates due to one of these or other oil flow issues the oil will not be cleaned and could put metal pieces into your engine.

Regards,
Fred


EXAMPLE:
258 on CJ7, 33x12.5 tires, 3:54 gears, T18 granny trans, rebuilt engine
21 MPG Hwy at 70 miles per hour......DuraSpark Ignition, TeamRush Cap Upgrade & proper plug wires, Used Ford E Coil, Ground to Head & DuraSpark black input wire, Copper antisieze on spark plug threads

Changed to Summit MultiSpark Discharge ignition 24/25 MPG Hwy, with the stock Distributor
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Unread 11-29-2008, 08:43 AM   #9
mike06X
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so i should go - MSD iron gear for cam, and a MSD bronze for distributor? Or just two new MSD iron gears..
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Unread 11-29-2008, 10:51 AM   #10
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike06X View Post
now, i read all about mismatching gears; imported gears; aftermarket timing covers, casting flash in oil passages, slop in the distributor hole, cam bearing #1 being installed wrong or without the 360 degree grooves, and the holes in the gears lining up so that oil makes it through.

my question is - i want to fix it right..i didn't build the motor, so i dont know whats in it component wise; its suppose to be a fresh build (less than a year), it came in my cj7 when i got it.

I can see the drive gear is mashed up good; the gear on the distributor (proform billet hei style) looks like its brand new. I know these should be replaced as a set; i'm probably going with the Bulltear matched set - when the cover is off, what else should be done? should I go thru the motions of pulled the cam and checking the #1 bearing? should I just spin the oil pump manually and watch for oil delivery? should i do some type of external oiling modification? should the entire engine be pulled and disassembled due to metal shavings ending up who knows where in oil passages and bearings?
Don't know what to tell you...
Volumes written on this, and I personally have been singled out by the vendors selling this junk as a liar and worse...

The Proform distributor, especially the ones sold by 4WD, have hardened gears that just plain eat away at the factory gear,
And to make matters worse, they often have shafts/housings that are too long, and bind the crap out of the oil pumps too.

Now remember, all of us that warn of bad gears and incorrect machining on these clone HEI's are out of our minds, just ask any of the vendors importing and selling this junk!
------------------------

Send your distributor back for a new one and ask for the parts to make your engine right again.

If not, hit them with a small claims suit for the parts/labor to fix your engine.
They won't show up, and you win by default, but you make your point and might actually get some of the damage paid for out of the deal.

That is the ONLY way we are going to get any of this stuff stopped!
--------------------

With your current distributor, there is no way to reuse it right now.
You can test the gear by using a 1/8" drill on the bottom part of the gear and trying to drill into it.

The proper ductile iron is VERY easy to drill and you will get to shaft in no time.
The hardened gears Proform is using will dull the drill before you get more than a surface polish.

You will also be able to tell they are using STEEL and not IRON once the surface has been polished...
-------------

Even if you change gears,
You are still going to be stuck with a distributor the shaft or housing is too long for your application.

Now, the rocket scientists at 4WD & Proform will tell you to use double or tipple thick gaskets to try and raise the unit up enough it doesn't put the oil pump impellers in a bind...

This is a really Chicken ***** way to do things!

If you want a 3rd party to review and write a report for a small claims case about your current distributor before you modify it or send it back to Proform/Vendor, I'd done three so far, Two have resulted in judgments for the plaintiff, the third is still pending.

Once the measurements are taken, report is written, and the problems with the distributor are documented by a third party, you can send the distributor back to Proform/Vendor for a replacment...

The idea of a replacment is so you have BRAND NEW stock to return when the case is settled,
OR,
You can send me the brand new one and I can blueprint it to see if the the problems are 'Persistent', further proving your case.
---------------------

NOW,
*IF* You stack gaskets as recommended by the manufacturer/vendors, then as the gaskets compress you will have TWO problems,

1. As gaskets compress, the distributor will become loose and move around with rotation of the shaft.
This is minor but aggravating.

2. As gaskets compress/decompose, the distributor will drop back down where it is binding the oil pump impeller again, and cause this same problem (or worse!).

That not only adds excessive wear on the oil pump,
But it creates drag on the cam drive gear to distributor driven gear...

And if you throw in a hardened steel distributor gear with machining that looks like machine tool cutting teeth, you can see where this is heading.....!!!!


Take a look at the top pictures of this page, and see if any of it looks familiar...
http://www.junkyardgenius.com/igniti...EIcompair.html

AND,
If you have pictures you would like to add to this page to try and inform others about this problem, I'd sure like to post them on there for you!
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Unread 11-29-2008, 12:18 PM   #11
mike06X
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Hammer - My motor is apart now; I just want to get her back together - i'm really concerned trying to re-use my distributor now if it ain't right..

i read something about drilling out a 1/16" whole in one of the oil plugs behind the cam gear to improve oil circulation..whats your take on this?

I will get some pictures; and i'll send you the distributor if you want it for your "research" cause i'm weary of using it at this point..
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Unread 11-29-2008, 12:35 PM   #12
mike06X
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i have an amc distributor (electronic), but it does not have any mechanical/centrifugal advance mechanism; only a vacuum - i'm assuming this is not the motorcraft dist. i want to build up 'teamrush'..right?
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Unread 11-29-2008, 12:56 PM   #13
mike06X
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nevermind; i'm just showing my lack of knowledge w/ anything other than a cheby..(i see the centrifugal weights in the base of the dist, under a cover !

autozone has a new one for $49, so i might just get it, and then do the ford e-core coil and teamrush cap, etc..

the last bit of my puzzle is whether or not to do anything to ensure proper oiling; via external line or drilling out the pipe-plug in the block so it squirts on the timing gear/dist shaft..

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Unread 11-29-2008, 03:04 PM   #14
mike06X
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i installed the hei distributor in the cover (on the bench) and it does not appear to be binding on the oil pump shaft; it seems to have as much play as the motorcraft distributor i have (i tried them both in the cover to see whats going on)

assuming i replace both gears; would it be alright to continue to run the hei distributor? i like the simplicity of only having 1-wire in my engine bay for the distributor; sure, it would be nice to have an msd setup, and if i end up going motorcraft/teamrush, i'd do a CDI setup, whats holding me back is finding a good safe spot to mount the remote coil and cdi module..
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Unread 12-10-2008, 05:34 PM   #15
toddrod97
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Ok guys I too fell for the 4WD distributor gear trick. My stock cam gear was shot in less than 100 miles. Lesson learned. So from what Ive been reading, MSD cam and distributor gears are the way to go? Ive got to buy them new anyways so I want the best. Like many others I had no idea that a new distributor gear was capable of such swift shredding. Its only money....
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