304 ran well till I ran out of gas, now stalls under load or after idling a few min - JeepForum.com
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Unread 02-15-2015, 12:53 PM   #1
ghomez51
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1974 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
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304 ran well till I ran out of gas, now stalls under load or after idling a few min

Hi. I have posted this on early cj and got some great info but just trying pick as many brains as I can.

First time post here. I've been siphoning knowledge and fixes for a few months here and want to thank everyone who has done some of this leg work before me. It has finally happened where I'm stuck. I've been able to do a lot of the basic swaps and follow directions pretty well, but this is a little beyond what I can do and finally need some help and direction. While I have literally been a passenger or driving a Jeep my entire 33 year life, I had never driven one this old until I started to shop around for this one. So here's the story...

Purchased in November, the Jeep hadn't really been driven a lot by the previous owner over a year or so span. Since then I have put a couple hundred mile on it doing Phoenix surface street driving. Swapped all my fluids, had change some joints, rewired the rear part of the harness, every part of the charging system except the starter etc etc. The only strange thing I had noticed leading up to the even was it was really stingy if not given time to warm up. A handful of times over the last 2 or 3 drives when going over a speed bump it almost stalled whether going over in 1st or with the clutch in and drifting over. Last week I basically ran out of gas after not quite paying attention to my flickering fuel gauge and ended up pushing the cj through a parking lot to the gas station. Almost to the station it stalled out as I shifted to 3rd. I put half a tank in, started right up and proceeded to return to work. After about 3 minutes of operation and shifting from 1st to 2nd I stalled again. As I'm lifelessly drifting down the road I get it started again and start driving, about 50 yards later the same thing happens. I manage to start it one more time and make it back to my work lot and leave it alone until the end of the night.The only other out character detail is I didn't let it warm up its usual 3 or 4 minutes before this trip.

After leaving work I go out, start it up, let it warm up, stalls again. It took a few minutes to want to start again, this time I cruised around the lot for a minute and it stalled again. I live about .5 miles from where I work so I manage to get it home and into the garage. In the garage light, I see the paper element in my clear fuel filter has become dislodged from its connection and partly blocking the inlet from the pump. I replaced that the next morning, no change. Early Nov I had to replace the accelerator pump diaphragm as it was leaking gas. This was after I replaced the acc cable due to sticking and being frayed and crazy throttle response while maybe pulling a little too hard causing the diaphragm leak. Anyway, the carb is the motorcraft 2100 btw. When comparing it to the service manual and other photos, it looks like the choke plate doesn't come in contact with the choke diaphragm link ever, and the vacuum thing it attaches too may as well be non existent. It doesn't have a dashpot either. Additionally, the driverside fuel vent has been disabled, the expansion tank is still in the wheel well and still have the other canister between the firewall and front wheel well. My fuel line isn't leaking or pinched at any point.

This is what the trend is. Stalls frequently under load in any gear it seems. If seems to be able to idle from startup for a fairly long time, but upon revving or increased accelerator pressure it stalls. I'm getting gas from the pump into the filter, seems to have trouble reaching the carb. With an issue like this it seems like it could go in a ton of directions. Has anyone experienced this in conjunction with any of the problems I have? What is the most logical place to start?

Thanks for any help and all the help everyone provided already.

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Unread 02-15-2015, 01:00 PM   #2
TIPPEDITOVER
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Not sure what you have going on with the choke. A pic is worth a thousand words.

Probably got some debris in the float bowl. Today's gasoline seems to make it's own debris in a float bowl. It will look like sand in the float bowl. Yank carb off, soak it overnight in carb cleaner. Blast all the little holes with high pressure air or aerosol carb cleaner in a can.
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Unread 02-15-2015, 01:41 PM   #3
y2k-fxst
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1964 CJ6 
 
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Besides rebuilding/replacing the carb, especially if parts are missing. I would empty and drop the fuel tank, more than likely you sucked garbage up that had settled to the bottom of the tank when you refilled the empty tank. Had a old car that would shut off from time to time under acceleration. Found there was a lot of gunk in the fuel tank and it would suck it up around the filter sock on the pick-up. After it stalled and set for 5-10 minutes it would restart after the crud had floated away from the sock. I ended up cleaning what I could out of the tank and taking the sock off. I put an extra in-line filter in before the fuel pump. I went through a half dozen fuel filters the first month, make sure you carry spares though!
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Unread 02-15-2015, 01:56 PM   #4
TheDonk
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^^ What these guys said. Although I would personally lean towards the full carb rebuild if it sat for over a year. That, in combination with modern gas, is hard on gaskets.

I will add as well, if you're not too sure on the full history of your CJ, you might be surprised by how bad your tank is. If it has sat for long durations/routinely over its life, the tank may be in pretty bad shape and worth replacing. Hopefully that's not the case here.
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Unread 02-15-2015, 02:11 PM   #5
ghomez51
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Thanks quick informative responses. I have a feeling pulling the tanks and cleaning it is a good idea, but was hoping to get away with doing that on spring break! Everything I've done so far except change the oil and pull the tire is first time for me so it's all learning.

I attached a couple of pictures of the carb. If you look at the last pick from the driver's side, 154156, the choke link parts don't attach and never change position.
20141222_154140.jpg   20141222_154108.jpg   20141222_154156.jpg  
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Unread 02-15-2015, 05:17 PM   #6
y2k-fxst
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghomez51 View Post
Thanks quick informative responses. I have a feeling pulling the tanks and cleaning it is a good idea, but was hoping to get away with doing that on spring break! Everything I've done so far except change the oil and pull the tire is first time for me so it's all learning.

I attached a couple of pictures of the carb. If you look at the last pick from the driver's side, 154156, the choke link parts don't attach and never change position.
The round part missing the screw at top rear on the second picture is what controls you choke. If you notice there is a tube attached to the bottom of it. That should transfer heat from your manifold to a bi-metal coil that in turn moves the choke plate. Newer carbs replace this with a switched electric heated bi-metal choke activator.

Been a while since I messed with one but, if I remember correctly the lever on the drivers side does not have any linkage it just contacts the lever on what I believe is a bowel vent. Sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong about this.

Still believe the first thing I would do is drop the fuel tank and either replace it or clean and seal it, and replace the filter sock. Would do this before spending money on a carb rebuild or replacement. If you don't you will run the risk of getting junk from the tank plugging needle/seat, jets, and other internal passages.
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Unread 02-15-2015, 09:04 PM   #7
TIPPEDITOVER
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So long as you keep a good filter installed, no debris from the tank is going to make it into the carb. So I would put the tank dropping idea on hold for now. The quickest, easiest and 1st thing to do is unscrew the few screws holding the top of the carb on and have a look down inside. If it looks like a sand box then clean all that debris out of there. Adding a fuel stabilizer will prevent it from happening again. Of course it's just speculation right now that it's a problem. It's certainly worth a look and that is what I would do 1st if it were my problem.
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Unread 02-15-2015, 09:12 PM   #8
TheDonk
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I would also pull the needle and seat, normally when they stick you won't get any gas flow to the carb, or it will flood. Yours could be stuck somewhere in the middle, or could be partially clogged. It would be the first one I have heard of to only happen under load, but it's possible and only takes a couple minutes to check.
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Unread 02-16-2015, 09:54 AM   #9
JeepHammer
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The question is, (and the answer is probably 'NO'),

Did you have a metal canister filter BEFORE the pump?

Rust, scale, crud gets into the pump and scores/scratches/pits the check valves in the pump...
Sometimes wedging the pump valves open.

This includes the inlet and output valve, AND the pressure bypass valves.

Guys that have hard starting, have to crank a long time, or use starting fluid to get the engine started, the first thing I do is check the pump...

Just because you see 'Gas' in the see through filter doesn't mean you are getting correct pressure, or enough volume...
A pump replacement might be needed to get things working again...

Running out of fuel *Shouldn't* have caused a choke problem...
But these are CJs, so I'm not discounting anything!
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