Which one should I choose? Pro and cons...
Would the Edelbrock give a better fuel economy since it has injectors instead of a throttle body?
My 304 has about 2000 miles since it was rebuilt 2 years ago.
The junk TBI is not an option. I need something complete and ready to bolt on. US cars is kind of rare in Norway - and few of them end up in the junkyard.
No Cash for Clunkers here :thumbsup:
Some boring Norwegian automobile statistics:
average age for a car in norway is 10,4 years...
average age for a car ending up in the junkyard is 18,5 years...
They are both throttle body injectors. The Howell computer just controls the fuel/air the Edelbrock controls both fuel and spark and the program can be changed.
This Edelbrock setup is not a throtle body injection system. It's closer to a TPI setup. Check out Holley's TBI setup as well as FAST and Profesional products Powerjection III systems. All the newer ones can deal with elevation changes and don't require constant tinkering as the old ones did. The advantage of a Howell setup is (at least in North America) that parts are easy to come by and you do not have to order a specific "Howell" part. They can be had at a local Chevy dealer.
As for TBI vs. TPI, with the injectors getting a straight shot to the valves in a TPI setup, you get better atomization and equil fuel delivery to each cylinder. TBI is a "wet flow" system meaning the fuel and air travil down the runners to the cylinders, loosing some atomization. On the other side of the coin, you're also looking at $1200 VS $3500. I hope this didn't muddy up the water too much!
IF I were to switch to a 360 i have to buy one - and probably have it sent from the US... not cheap.
My CJ-7 is registered as a historical vehicle and I'm not allowed to change any major components. Putting in a 360 could be an issue...
I'm satisfied with the 304 - it has been rebuilt and runs good. I just want something more reliable than a carb, but I agree - $3000 is a lot of money if I decide to go for the Edelbrock system.
There are thousands (probably) of happy Jeep owners running around with the Howell System. I don't think you would find any noticible benefit by going with the Edelbrock system on a lightly modified 304. The Howell starts easily, idles great and is not effected by altitude. I had one on my 304.
Just remember it's important to have large enough "supply and return" fuel lines and the electric pump should be located near the tank as it's a better "pusher" than a "puller". Nice looking engine!
There are thousands (probably) of happy Jeep owners running around with the Howell System. I don't think you would find any noticible benefit by going with the Edelbrock system on a lightly modified 304. The Howell starts easily, idles great and is not effected by altitude. I had one on my 304.
Just remember it's important to have large enough "supply and return" fuel lines and the electric pump should be located near the tank as it's a better "pusher" than a "puller". Nice looking engine!
Just offering my humble opinion. Before going with my GM junk yard setup, I did some looking around and Holley's new self learning computer is pretty amazing. It adjusts a lot more than a normal GM ECM.
That being said, The Howell system is a revamped GM setup in kit form. A really good, time proven setup and it is as plug and play as you can get. The added bonus is that if you talk to them, they will help you tie in the spark control as well. I don't think it comes that way stock, but there are more and more references to it on line from folks that have done it.
Again just my opinion. The 304 flow characteristics were not designed with MPFI in mind so I would suggest that that going to throttle body EFI from carb is a great improvment but you are going to see only a little improvment by stepping up to MPFI over a throttle body, but not enough to justify the the large cost difference, not to mention the complication difference.
If you have the money to burn, by all means go with the Edlebrock MPFI but I doubt it will be much of a performance difference over the throttle body system (think Howell, Holley, GM)
It really depends on what you are building. A compitition machine that needs every little edge it can get or a hobby machine that is fun for running trails etc.
I think the bigger advantage in cold starts from the MPI system would be from the ignition control. Wall wetting vs. temp is fairly easy to predict and account for with a modern TBI system, you just need to account for more of it with a TBI vs. MPFI.
I went to the howell on my 258 & its a very nice upgrade over the carb I wouldn't go back for sure. The guys at howell are very helpfull also if you have any issues.
I went for function and price. The GM TBI setup is bullet proof.
Millions of vehicles running it mean parts and service support.
If a component goes bad it can be easily obtained.
The performance brands are very cool and probably a little sportier, but try to find parts for them when something goes wrong.
I went with a kit from Affordable Fuel Injection. They are an alternative as well. Their price is better than Howell.
On my SBC I got a complete kit Distributor and all for less than the Howell kit without.
Fuel lines should be 3/8" on the supply side and 5/16" on the return.
Affordable Fuel Injection is a good alternative as mentioned. I've installed Howell kits and a "built it yourself" kit from AFI, which consisted of the prom chip and a wiring harness. AFI incorporates spark control and seems to run better, but Howell's wiring harness is CJ specific and fits better. I had to make some modifications to AFI's harness to move some parts of it out of the passenger compartment and into the engine compartment (fuel pump and main power relays).
There are a lot of guys out there running 5/16 supply and 1/4 return just fine. Try it, and if it does not work well for you bump up to the 3/8 and 5/16. While I have the larger lines, the pickup and return points on my tank are still 5/16 and 1/4, so I am not sure that going to a larger line its self makes any difference unless people are changing the tank connections and I just have not read that part online.
I have installed the Edelbrock mpfi on my brother-in-laws truck (77 Chevy 350 4x4) and have had a couple of Chevy shop trucks 350 tbi and they aren't even close to the same. To say you wont see much difference in the two is a huge understatement. That is like saying the Howell is, or almost as good as the Mopar MPFI. Yes price is a lot different, but they are night and day different in every way. Not knocking the tbi, as I have been working on getting a junkyard system smog legal myself, but MPI rules in every way.
I love my Edelbrock MPFI. My 304 runs as good as my 2007 f-150. I was getting 10 MPG on my MC 2100 now I get 15. I have had it for about 6 years and I have had the O2 sensor go out on me, but that is all. I have never tried the other systems, but I am so glad I went this route. Single handedly the best upgrade I have made to my CJ. Some peoples attitude toward the 304 I just shake my head... If you are going to make in investment into an AMC this is the best fuel system in my opinion. Runs good, idles good, good starts when it is cold, great throttle response, low emissions, I just can't say enough. But cost was not my deciding factor, I wanted turn key, I really did not know much about EFI to build a kit, but have never looked back.
The one thing I went back and changed is the fuel pump. I hated the sound of the external and went with a Mustang in-tank pump. Took a little custom work to get it into the tank and get the wiring right, but no more pump noise.
Can I leave the old valley pan as it is or should I put in a new Fel-Pro with the new manifold? edit: since it's a new intake manifold I'll get rid of the old valley pan and use the new one...
Got a tip from mopar408 about modification to the throttle setup
Drilled a 1 3/4 hole in the firewall for the wire harness. Had to be routed from the inside the tub to the engine..
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