Still clean your current plugs and see if any cylinder looks different than the others. Install and then after you run some can look again. The final adjustments and looks should be on the new plugs.

If you have time, ck the resistance of the plug wires and verify they are similar, sometimes they are bad out of the box. If one wire measures much higher resistance than the rest that could be your studder and it will show up on the plug condition too. If you have all new stuff I hope you got the teamrush componets they do make a big difference. If you have the smaller OEM cap I would not open up the plug gap and leave it at .032". The smaller cap cannot take the higher voltages when the spark plug gap is opened up. Not sure if this one or one of the other said was at .035. That is one of the benefits of TeamRush you can open the gap to .035 to .040" and drive your discharge voltages up some and works well with the CDI. Thats the set up I have. With the std OEM cap I would not open up the gap and use the std .032" even with the CDI.

When you have the cap off look for any carbon tracking and are you using a black cap?? or a cap with aluminum terminals?? Let us know next time.


The 145 Run Jet is new must have stocked it because of my write up on the WEber Tune. It was not avail prior. I may confirm with weber and add to the list of jets avail

 

spark plugs.
JeepHammer says AutoLite 985 run well and test the best out of the box.. Many fail tests even out of the box. Many have also has good luck with Champion. I would not run anyother and many have posted platnim and other odd ball stuff just does not work well in the 258. I run Autolite 985 Menards has them $260 for a two pack, its a good price if you have them in your MI area, I know my bud in GrandRapids has Menards.

 

Its a new cap. Its blue with aluminum terminals. Does this mean I open the gap or not?

I hear a lot of "team rush" talk and I'm not real sure if thats what I got or not. Like i mentioned earlier, I ordered the ignition system (cap, coil, and box) out of a sumit magazine with the help of an engine builder.

I got the autolie 985's at walmart. There on my bench waiting for a good running engine.
Josh

 

Its a new cap. Its blue with aluminum terminals. Does this mean I open the gap or not?

I hear a lot of "team rush" talk and I'm not real sure if thats what I got or not. Like i mentioned earlier, I ordered the ignition system (cap, coil, and box) out of a sumit magazine with the help of an engine builder.

I got the autolie 985's at walmart. There on my bench waiting for a good running engine.
Josh

Are autolites 985 installed in the engine?

The aluminum caps are crap... the alumium oxidies are not conductive and cannot be cleaned away like the brass contacts. That cap will die very quickly under the power output/energy of a CDI. That was a poor package choice by the Vendor and you should tell them so. I would be suspect of the quality of the spark plug wires too.. Who made the spark Pllug wires?????

It is decision time, you need a brass terminal premium cap & rotar... sorry. Now you can buy the teamrush cap & rotatar and a set of premium spark plug wires. What brand did you get of wires, some are crap too. I would get the teamrush cap & rotar and the difference in my newly built 258, fully refurbished, was incredable, 15% in pep like another 7th cylinder added, 1000 of rpms with out feeling like pushing the new engine, has 1000 miles on it, and 2.5 mpg hwy increase. Change of cap & plug wires... thats incredable, yes sold on this change so are hundreds of others that have reported the same kinda inprovements.

my shoping results when I cked for parts
cap& rotar.. ORileys Auto lifetime borgwarner parts, brass approx $30
Wires.. I like the Navy Blue Beldin Premiums ones at NAPA. Lifetime. $35

The Navy Beldin Wires have low imprediance from my measurements. And many have posted good about them... The sets I have purchased look better than others I looked at. JeepHammer like AutoLite Wires from auto stores and the Best ones are the MSD ones, nearly 2x the price but his tests show the best ones out there. $75

Here is the link on teamrush by JeepHammer one of the many
The first few pages should be more than enough info.. 10K people have looked at this or something like that. Its the best upgrade for the Jeep CJ for the money that I know of. Everone should do this change/upgrade..
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=669495

 

update. #1 is missing. Eliminated the plug and the wire on #1 cylinder. Cap is the only thing left? I think this is my big problem. I think if I get all the cylinders firing my smoke goes away. I went to get the teamrush tonight but autozone did not have it in stock. I got the cap extender and the extended rotor. Need the cap now. This may be my big issue.

I found this with the test light. I thought my light was a p.o.s. because it would cut out. Tonight I moved the inductor from #1 to #5 and WOW. It was like a solid light! And here I was banging on the light thinking it was the problem.

I still dont know what the problem is. I took the cap off and brushed the connection with a brass wire brush, sprayed it with silicone spray. All connections have dielectric grease. The fact remains #1 fires less than half the time that it should.

I took the plugs out tonight and #1 and 4 were black and sooty. Now a suspect #4 as well. All others were almost blonde/tan. I did a cold compression test tonight and this is what I got:

Cold engine
1-125
2-125
3-130
4-135
5-135
6-140

Interesting how they trend up towards the back. I want to do this warm and see what I get. Is it fair to get 10-15 psi with heat?

More to follow. I need the teamrush cap.

Josh

 

update. #1 is missing. Eliminated the plug and the wire on #1 cylinder. Cap is the only thing left?

A 258 will show a miss with an induction light when it is running too lean. Just about drove me crazy tracking down a miss like that until I realized one of the idle tubes was plugged so 1 and 2 showed misses with 1 being real bad. (BBD carb)

I suppose it may also show a miss with an induction light if running too rich with fouled plugs, but you say the plug is clean...

 

grounded the head, grounded the distributor, wires from msd are sheilded. the only thing I did not do was retorque the intake.

got fix the ignition first.

 

grounded the head, grounded the distributor, wires from msd are sheilded. the only thing I did not do was retorque the intake.

got fix the ignition first.

Once The DuraSpark Igntion is gone no reason to ground the distributor. Will not hurt and you can keep the DuraSpark in there for a plug and play back up ignition. The Duraspark Ignition Box gets it ground from the distirbutor, rust, oil varnished, gasket, poor grounding all make this a weak point for this igntion, that is why the TeamRush says to ground the distributor. It makes a great back up igniiton when you are on the trail, that is what I have and was recommended by JeepHammer.

MSD wires are shielded, ok. The shield needs to be grounded on one end to work then, wires are already twisted then too. Run this signal wire by itself and do not run // parallel to any wires that switch power. The magnetic flux lines of the switch power will induce stray currents in this low level signal wire and trigger the MSD to fire spark. Kinda like putting batter on a wire run thru paper with all the filings the make lines like a magnet. Grow the field and collasp the field when next to // wire and it induces current. The wires can move or the field can grow/collasp to have this affect. EE 101.

I am going to guess now,, you were sold some cheap cap/rotar/ plug wires on a premium ignition. I think you will be impress when you have the TEAMRUSH installed.

Fred

 

ck the manifolds it only takes a few minutes and could very well affect your cylinder reading depending on where it might be loose. Std practice to ck these manifold after a few runs and some heat cycles.

The cylinders might have heated up some with the cranking and friction thus giving you higher readings as you went along with your test. I also doubt the rings are fully seated yet and your cylinders are most likely gunked up too. Still good to test but I feel your results will be higher warm, and will change again in the near future when running better and the cylinders/valves/seats are cleaner and working the way they should be.

You cannot clean aluminum contacts, once they pit, they are done. As said above not a good match to your CDI. Tell Summit they are goofing up supplying a cheap non brass cap, they owe you a little on your next order.

OHM your spark plug wires that could be issue too. The aluminum contacts have more resistance and make it harder for the HOT SPARK to get to the correct cylinder. Ck the wire contacts and make sure they are tight on plugs ends and contacts. I put dielectric grease on the contacts/plug wires too.

Sounds like you are getting closer. The plugs can tell you a lot...

 

The facts as it relates to my situation are as follows.

The inductive light is lazy, or inconsistant on #1 spark plug wire.

#5 spark plug wire is very consistant. Almost a solid light.

I swapped the plug and plug wires from #1 and #5 and saw no difference.

To me, that means my problem is not fuel because #5 gets the same fuel as #1. Compression is similiar between the two as well. That leaves ignition. Its not the plug because #5 plug performed poorly in #1. Its not the wire because I swapped it to with the same result. That leaves the cap and rotor.

I suppose it could still be a loose intake, but that would create a lean condition on a cylinder. Why would that impact the timing light? The ignition shouldnt care about the a/f mixture. If its gonna fire, its gonna fire. Either way, I will address both and report back. Once I fix this, I may play with the advance curve.

Josh

 

I suppose it could still be a loose intake, but that would create a lean condition on a cylinder. Why would that impact the timing light? The ignition shouldnt care about the a/f mixture. If its gonna fire, its gonna fire. Either way, I will address both and report back. Once I fix this, I may play with the advance curve.

Josh

I found that a lean condition made my inductive timing light miss and not fire. In the case of the BBD, one idle tube was plugged which seemed to affect #1 the worst, then #2 showed skips with only the odd skip on 3. 4, 5 and 6 were fine.

A lean misfire would be the name for it likely.

With only one and five messing up and a new cap and rotor, I would be going after the intake bolts I think or at least I would spray along the gasket with WD40 or carb cleaner to see if it stumbled that way.

The aftermarket cap and rotor don't usually arc out 'that' fast, but a good strong light inside the cap will tell you if you have any spiderweb marks from carbon tracking.

I would highly recommend you get it running really well 'first' before you start micro-tuning the advance curve. That way you have a good runner to base your findings on. Some folks that have started down that timing curve road still haven't got a good runner. More isn't always better....

 

Thanks for the feedback, intake will get addressed tonight. I also went and picked up a high end cap from napa with brass terminals.
Josh

 

Update:

Idle is clean and smooth. The brass connections seamed to really help.

New issue:

I have a pair of vice grips on the vacuum hose going to the distributor when I set the timing. When I remove the vice grips the engine sputters and stalls. I cross referenced other posts to make sure I am using the correct ported vacuum. This port is below the butterfly plates right? The engine runs smooth with the hose off the distributor but as soon as I try to hook it up to the carb, engine stalls. Am I doing something wrong?

I cant get any advance this way. Not sure what to do next.

Help!!

Josh

 

Update:

Idle is clean and smooth. The brass connections seamed to really help.

New issue:

I have a pair of vice grips on the vacuum hose going to the distributor when I set the timing. When I remove the vice grips the engine sputters and stalls. I cross referenced other posts to make sure I am using the correct ported vacuum. This port is below the butterfly plates right? The engine runs smooth with the hose off the distributor but as soon as I try to hook it up to the carb, engine stalls. Am I doing something wrong?

I cant get any advance this way. Not sure what to do next.

Help!!

Josh

Thats good, ye I like the TeamRush a great deal and the Brass Terminals are the best. I will never use a aluminum cap again.

The distributor get hooked to Ported Vacuum and that is above the plates. Should not have vacuum or very little at idle. If you use manifold vacuum it will have quite a bit vacuum at idle. You will need to verify that.

Previous Owner may have adj the vaccum advance so it come in very quick. There is a allen head adjustment in the advance can. You will see in JeepHammers write up. There should not be that much of change.

A better way is to put a golf tee in the vacuum hose, will not damage, or cause it to collasp on vaccum at that spot. I put a few in my vacuum gauge kit. Not my idea but is is a good one. I have used the vise grips in past too. something new.

Then clean your plugs and get an idea where you are with carb and running. Ck around town and hwy. Try to get your carb and time closer. Change to the new plugs and see where you are. I like to write my results down on sprial notebook so you can refer to it again.

Good luck

 

I dont have anything above the plates to hook to. There are screws on the back that are doing nothing. Should I take one out and make a port? They are north of the plates.

On a side note, I got about 90* of turn out of the intake bolts before the wrench clicked. That proved to be a good exercise.

It was idling so good I let it run for 20 minutes. After I checked the plugs. Nice and tan on the surface. Maybe lean if anything. It still hadnt burned off all the black underneeth.

Still a little heavy on the smoke. Any chance that goes away after a good break in?

 

It is running nice. I have about 15* of advance at 1500rpm. That must be mechanical. I just need the vacuum part of the advance and I'm golden.

http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Installation/50958.pdf

If you look at page 7 of this pdf you can see the port is below the plate, or manifold vacuum. This kill the engine striaght away.

What does DGEC stand for?

Josh

 

Well we are getting closer.

The idle screw if too far down can open the throttle plates and progression ports..... this makes it more rich allowing the progression ports to add fuel and lets in a little more air too. This is a simpton I look for when the Idle Jets are too big... This would also give you part of the manfold vacuum at the ported vacuum, ie more vacuum. Have you adjusted that and the A/F like I suggested above to make sure the throttle plates are closed.?? If you have go back and try to make some finner adjstments per the tune threads and see where you are.

Can ck the Ported VAcuum with a vacuum gauge and see what it has, should be low. Should not make that much of a difference like you are seeing.. There is something else we are missing. Try the above, and if need you can adjust your vacuum can and see if that helps. Again PO Might have adjusted the distirbutor vacuum can so the advance comes in way to easy and fast??? This might need to be looked at. If you can try to see how many deg the vacuum advance adds even if you have to up idle to 900 to keep it running. If not follow JeepHammers thread and try to adjust vacuum can some to take some of the advance out.

YOu still have a lot of crap in there yet. Once you get things close take it for a ride not Idle. Rings have not seated yet, how many miles?? Might want to try some seafoam in the carb to get the carbon junk out before you change to the new plugs. That carbon is in your engine and exhaust. It will take some time to get rid of.

Then it will be time to put the new plugs in a read them. You may also need the 147 jet. But it will be interesting to see what you find looks the best. I have a Borla header and exhaust so mine might breath a little bit more.

So this old man was not too far off hu..

Fred

 

So far, so good old timer. Thanks for the help. So I guess the ported vacuum at the base is the right one that I should be using.

A/F is 1.5-2 turns out. Idle may be a bit aggressive, I will check. I have to go get a vacuum gauge. I want to adjust on the vac/adv pm the distributor as well. I will keep on a tunen. I will let you know. as always.
josh

 

looks like 7.5" at idle on the ported vacuum on the carb. I can actually have it hooked up to the distributor with out it stalling now. But when I tip into the throttle if falls off and backfires then stalls.

Is 7.5" too much? The idle is sooo low. I dont know if I want it any lower. I dont have a tach but sounds like 600-700 rpm.

Thanks
Josh

 

O.k. this is what i did. I took off the diaphram off the distributor and applied 7.5" of vacuum and marked the movement (advance). Then I counted the turns to the right and to the left from original. I counted 20 turns. It was originally at 17.5 turns and would not run at all. I incrementally moved it to 10 to 5 and then 0. The lower the turns the less the movement at 7.5". At 0 turns it runs the best, when I install it back on the Dist. I can see it advance with the light.

When I took it for a test drive I learned that this set up will not work because it really falls off on tip in. NO power at all. But its not backfiring or stalling which is directionally correct.

I think I am running too much vacuum at idle.

Recap:
2 turns out on A/F screw. 2.5 out on Idle. 47/45 run jets. 35/35 idle. FPR at 3.5, grounded head and distibutor with brass connections, msd box with coil. Compression 125-145 on all cylinders. Intake retorqued after several heat cycles. Distributor is 1979 vintage with the 13r/18r stamped on the bottom. Diaphram turned all the way to the left.


I just want to get my thoughts out. What will bring the power to the lower end and smooth power on tip in? Is it falling off because it is advancing too quick or not quick enough?

Maybe its time to pick up a tach with some degree tape and define the advance curve. Any thoughts?

Josh

 

sorry gone for the weekend

Let me look at some notes and get back, I have my ported vacuum level writen down.

Find a friend with a Time Light with the advance/rpm indication. Now that you have a vacuum gauge. The Time Light with RPM/Advance it will be much faster to plot your curve. Can be done in 10-15 min or less with two of you.

I'll be back,
Fred

 

Hope you had a good week-end.

Take your time. I bought a tach and installed it. My POS fpr went to hell. The holley is still in transit. I will be down for a couple of days. In the mean time I have to re-do the plug wires because the teamrush wants different terminals on the cap. That will be tomorrow. Do you recomend 8mm or 7mm plug wires? I was running 8mm summit wires, but that may be overkill.

I got pictures of the plugs after a short drive. The look like a perfectly roasted marshmellow. Dark tan. Couldnt ask for anything better.

I took some time today and re-routed some stuff to clean up the engine compartment, worked on the manual choke, installed the tach. odds and ends. The only thing really left is to get the advance curve right. Hopefully by next weeke-end i will be cruisen.

Josh

 

Hopefully that 7.5"hg at idle will go up to 19-20" after break in. That's what I'm getting at idle 650 RPM. What cam are you running?

I'm getting total 12* advance on my engine at 1500 RPM initial and mecanical initial being 8* ( yes, mine runs great at that timing. must be that low compression )

 

Hopefully that 7.5"hg at idle will go up to 19-20" after break in. That's what I'm getting at idle 650 RPM. What cam are you running?

I'm getting total 12* advance on my engine at 1500 RPM initial and mecanical initial being 8* ( yes, mine runs great at that timing. must be that low compression )

Just a little clarification the poster and I are talking about is the Ported Vacuum... The 7.5Hg is the ported vacuum on the Weber Carb. Sounds like you are talking and listing manifold vacuum.

My advance levels are similar to John S's combined at 1500 rpms.

Poster maybe saying his Mechanical Advance is 15 at 1500 rpms and that is too much. I suggested someone prior may have put in very light springs, too light. We will need to hear from him and what he finds on his distributor advance curve.

 

This is what I am getting:

Idle @ 600 as suggested.
Initial Timing @ 4* as suggested. (runs great, no miss.)
First sign of advance comes in at 1200 RPM. Below is the raw data.
600 - 4*
800 - 4*
1000 - 4*
1200 - 8*
1400 - 12*
1600 - 16*
1800 - 18*
2000 - 20*
2200 - 20*
2400 - 20*

Thats 16* advance total. Not enough. Need to find out what mechanical is alone now. Back to the garage!
More to follow.

THanks Josh

 

This is what I am getting:
Idle @ 600 as suggested.
Initial Timing @ 4* as suggested. (runs great, no miss.)
First sign of advance comes in at 1200 RPM. Below is the raw data.
600 - 4*
800 - 4*
1000 - 4*
1200 - 8*
1400 - 12*
1600 - 16*
1800 - 18*
2000 - 20*
2200 - 20*
2400 - 20*
Thats 16* advance total. Not enough. Need to find out what mechanical is alone now. Back to the garage!
More to follow.
THanks Josh

Above is both vacuum and mech.

Sounds like one system or the other is not working. Simple to check but if your getting some vacuum at idle then you should see some advance from that. Did you take off the vacuum line when setting timing? IF it's the mechanical not working, maybe the mechanical advance plate is rusted together. Can you rotate the rotor by hand and see if it jumps back into place? It should turn in one direction.
put your vacuum gauge on the ported vacuum and see if it's increasing. You may have a busted diaphram in the vacuum advance.

I assumed it's was manifold vacuum as my ported vacuum is 0 at idle (650 RPM) but maybe his carb needs a little throttle open to make it idle. Since it's not missing, it's probably not to bad were he could be drawing on his primary circuit. My BBD has holes drilled into the throttle plate to keep the throttle closed but still leak enough air to keep it idling. This keeps you from opening up your throttle at idle and messing up the operation of your transition ports. This makes for smoother operation when you tip in on the gas a little.

 

Above is both vacuum and mech.

 

oops duplicate post

 

lots of new info. Ran the mechanical advance by itself and the curve landed on top of the vac/mech curve. The problem is on the vacuum side. Adjusted the diaphram to the middle of the adjustment (10 turns out of 20). Wants to stall off Idle cant run the curve.

Found a defect on the accel pump o-ring. Its cut and not sealing. I suspect this is whats causing the poor performance off idle with the vacuum setting on the diaphram at 10 turns. The original curve above was set to zero turns from left to right.

This explains a lot to me.

I am cautiously opptomistic that I am an O-ring away from a nice appropriate curve. Team-rush is done. gotta run.

 

I have installed the new O-ring, and unfortunatly is did not fix the entire problem but I continue to close in on the perfectly tuned engine.

When I fixed the O-ring I still had problems recording the the advance curve at 800-1200 RPM. This is with the vacuum diaphram adjusted to 10 of a total 20 turns from left to right. knowing this I adjusted the diaphram to 5 of 20 turns. This made it possible to run the curve and shifted it as follows.

600 - 4*
800 - 4*
1000 - 8*
1200 - 12*
1400 - 16*
1600 - 20*
1800 - 22*
2000 - 24*
2200 - 28*
2400 - 30*


Still not enough. I need to stop this process until I get the right FPR set at 3.5. Thats my next priority. I know Fred will be all over me about this so I might as well fall on my sword not. The holley FPR will be my next update.

Thanks!!
Josh

I will also open up my plugs to .045

 

(fall on my sword "now")

 

I collect knives and guns no swords. So I guess you are safe for now. You can also stop now if you want... its running ok right???

Here is the 1978/1979 CJ Curve, the heavier full sized Jeeps would be slightly less advance