258 Hose Layout Help? (Pictures) - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep CJ Forum > 258 Hose Layout Help? (Pictures)

Introducing MONSTALINER™ UV Permanent DIY Roll On Bed LineFS: Jeep Fog Light LED Bulbs! Several Brightness Options! Clayton Off Road JK Short Arm Suspension Kits

Reply
Unread 01-04-2012, 01:37 PM   #1
RecklessCJ
Registered User
1972 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Loganville, Ga
Posts: 65
258 Hose Layout Help? (Pictures)

I am kind of stumped as to how to route the vacuum lines, and adding a return fuel line? The PO has removed every single emission thing that could go on the 258. I have taken pictures of the motor and the connections that need hoses. Any help would be great.

*As for the coolant lines, I currently don't have a heater and debating about putting one in, so where would I route the manifold exit hose to, the smaller port on the thermostat housing?





















Any help/diagrams would be great!

RecklessCJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2012, 01:46 PM   #2
slumley1
Registered User
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 241
This link may help.

http://www.ifsja.org/tech/fuel/pictures/6cylvac.gif
slumley1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2012, 01:54 PM   #3
I6CJ7
Registered User
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 873
Well, I vant help you on the emissions and vacuum hoses... but, I can with your coolant hoses.

On your thermostat housing that small neck coming off it will goto the the intake manifold coolant neck closest to the radiator.
The other coolant neck on the manifold near the firewall, and behind your carburetor would normally go to your heater core... but since you dont have one, that hose will just come straight over the valvecover, then toward the radiator, and you will see a small neck port coming off the water pump housing, and it'll connect to that.
I6CJ7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2012, 02:25 PM   #4
walkerhoundvm
Registered User
1981 CJ8 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Little Apple, KS
Posts: 3,090
The line you have coming from the fuel pump to the front of the carb should have a fuel filter in the mix. You'll need one with a single "in" port, and two "out" ports - one in the center and another at 12 o'clock. The one in the center will go to the fuel in port of your carb and the one at 12 will serve as a fuel return line. You want to make sure the one at 12 is at 12, and is above a horizontal line drawn from the "in" port to the center port - this will help keep you from getting vapor lock.

Normally there's an aluminum line going from the pump to the carb side of the engine with a short hose extension, but looks like yours has been cut short with a rubber fuel hose making up the entire difference. It should still work as is, but you should be able to get one aftermarket if you want to.

The link above may help for the rest, but it looks like your EGR and CTO have been deleted. The hose you have in your hand in the last picture is the vacuum advance line to the dizzy and is correct. See the larger port on the back of the carb without anything attached? That's the manifold vacuum port, and should have a line going to the PCV valve which is that black doo-hickey coming out of the top front of your valve cover. That's all you'll need to/from the motorcraft carb you have in there.

Can't see if you have a charcoal canister there or not, but there are some other hoses you could throw in if that's the case. There are threads here covering those, but I won't bother linking them unless you have a canister.
walkerhoundvm is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2012, 02:35 PM   #5
walkerhoundvm
Registered User
1981 CJ8 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Little Apple, KS
Posts: 3,090
Just noticed two others that I didn't cover - the one off of the top piece of the carb coming out the rear with a black hose on it. That one serves no purpose in your set-up, and you can find a cap for it at Autozone or similar. All it would do now is suck air from the engine bay bypassing the air filter - you don't want that.

The one on the top front of the carb, angled back a bit, is the bowl vent. Without a canister, that one can likewise be capped. If you do have a canister, there is a port for the bowl vent. Again, I'd spend more time on that if I knew you had a canister.

I suspect we'll be hearing soon about how hard a time you're having getting the carb running...and we'll probably be recommending a TBI.

Welcome to CJs, we'll be glad to help you along no matter what you decide to do. The learning curve is steep!
walkerhoundvm is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2012, 03:33 PM   #6
RecklessCJ
Registered User
1972 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Loganville, Ga
Posts: 65
Thanks CJ7! The coolant lines are done!

As for everything else I'm getting there! Lol. The black hose in the back of the carb is capped off, so that part is already done. I do not have a canister so I guess I can cap the one right of top of the carb coming out at a 90.

I do have a fuel filter but placed it before the pump, so I guess I will have to move that (unless it doesnt matter). As of right now the motor is having a very hard time starting and even wanting to run even with starter fluid. Not sure if it's because I haven't finished hooking everything up, and it also seems as if it's not pumping fuel ( again could be because nothing is hooked up quite yet)

Also why would it be difficult to get the carb running, and what's a TBI?

Thanks for the help fellas!

EDIT: One last question, what's the brass knob with 3 nipples coming off the side of the block for?
RecklessCJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2012, 03:57 PM   #7
walkerhoundvm
Registered User
1981 CJ8 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Little Apple, KS
Posts: 3,090
To save you the trouble, you can keep the filter before the pump and just throw another one after the pump. Trace the line back from the carb 6-12" and put it there, on the carb side of the engine.

Where in your pictures is this brass knob on the side of the block? Can't seem to find what you're asking about. My guess is that you're maybe talking about the oil pressure sending unit?

You've got a road ahead of you - trouble shooting the pump (do a search for that here or ask), hooking everything up, and then getting the carb running right. It looks like your PO just threw that carb on there, do you know if it's ever run with that carb on it? It's an easy carb to work with, but might take a rebuild kit and some adjusting that you'll eventually be able to do, with or without help here. You can do it, I promise you.

TBI is throttle body injection, basically a fuel injection upgrade that a ton of CJ owners wind up going to for either simplicity or to pass emissions tests. Depending on how you do it, it can be a $500-1200 upgrade, but most find it worth it. The cheaper end is a DIY approach, finding a local salvage yard and pulling parts. The more expensive end is a kit put together by a company called Howell. It will replace darn near everything in between your gas tank and intake manifold. Fuel pump, fuel filter, and a throttle body injected delivery system, all computer controlled. There are quite a few threads on the subject, take a look and see what you think.

If I were in your shoes, I'd research it before you spend time getting everything hooked up and running. Depending on your financial situation and goals for the Jeep, it may very well be worth it.
walkerhoundvm is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2012, 04:00 PM   #8
I6CJ7
Registered User
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 873
Well that carb looks like its 100 yrs old... so it may need tuning and a rebuild or more...

TBI - is Throttle Body Injection. Its a very basic fuel injection system.
I6CJ7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2012, 04:15 PM   #9
RecklessCJ
Registered User
1972 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Loganville, Ga
Posts: 65
I think I will have to stick with the carb for a little while at that price...lol!

As for the filter, should i just get a generic single in single out and do the return line off the one before the pump? Or just switch two filters?

It did run not sure how long ago though (it looks so old because I haven't cleaned it, it's dried mud), it will kind of cough when I start it but seems as if it's flooded?

The brass knob isn't in the picture but it's a cylinder object coming from the side f the block with three nipples point upward ( like a v ) on the driver side below towards the rear of the block. It's not the oil pressure sensor because I replaced a manual one on the passenger side of the block
RecklessCJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2012, 04:32 PM   #10
waterdowg
Registered User
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: nj
Posts: 2,236
I have some good diagrams at work I can post tomorrow. Or just seach for "Post Nutter Vacuum hose". Even do a google search.
As for the nipple it may be the CTO. Some 2, 3, or 5 port. Its part of thr vacuum system.
It may be flooding if you do not have a return line for the fuel. The return line helps regulate fuel pressure. So you may want to replace the fiter with the correct one with a return line, and move it up before the carb. Be sure the return line is sitting at 12 o'clock.

Let me know about the vacuum diagrams.
waterdowg is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2012, 04:46 PM   #11
RecklessCJ
Registered User
1972 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Loganville, Ga
Posts: 65
I will google that and see what I come up with.

I have the correct filter, just not in the correct spot so I will move it and replace that spot before the pump with a single in single out and move the single to double near the carb.

That is possible and or maybe not pulling a vacuum because nothing is hooked up right?

Thanks for the help so far will hopefully get things sorted out some tonight and finish in the AM
RecklessCJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2012, 05:19 PM   #12
walkerhoundvm
Registered User
1981 CJ8 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Little Apple, KS
Posts: 3,090
If you're not firing up, even after trying to prime the carb, you could very well be dealing with a faulty pump. There should be threads here going over how to test the pump, I'm not certain how to do it other than it involves a bucket and some cranking on the engine.

Definitely work on getting the filter in the correct spot with a return line going back to the tank.

If it's not the pump or the filter, then you have a carb issue. It may be helped once you get some things hooked up and capped off. The most important is to have a hose running from the rear of the carb to the PCV like I mentioned in my first post. If you're pulling air from there instead of from the engine/PCV, it either won't run or will run very poorly. Start there.

If it still won't run, then you're looking at a carb rebuild (~$20 kit and a day) and retiming your engine. Again, neither of those are very difficult, just takes some research and questions here.

If it still won't run after that...well, God help you

As far as the CTO point, I don't see it anywhere that it's supposed to be in your pictures, it should be on your intake manifold - that bright shiny thing under your carb - to the left of the carb on the driver's side. But like the exhaust gas recirculator (EGR), it's been removed. No big deal, you don't "need" either of them to have a running engine. But it does sorta look like you've described, so maybe the PO put it in the block for whatever reason POs do anything. Looks sorta like this:



If not, snap a picture and post it. Snap lots of pictures as you work, so you can remind yourself of how things go back together if you get in a bind. Especially if you have to rebuild the carb!
walkerhoundvm is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2012, 08:11 PM   #13
RecklessCJ
Registered User
1972 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Loganville, Ga
Posts: 65
Wow! I definitely can not thank you enough for the very helpful information!

I'm really starting to think that because it's not connected to the PCV Valve could be the problem. But I read another post just a minute ago about how a guy tested his, so I will try that after running the lines.

And to answer your question, yes that's what I was talking about. Should I just cap those?
RecklessCJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2012, 10:44 PM   #14
walkerhoundvm
Registered User
1981 CJ8 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Little Apple, KS
Posts: 3,090
No need to cap them, I believe they just function through a mechanism that's regulated by the temperature of the block/coolant - if there's nothing going into them (which there shouldn't be with the motorcraft carb without an EGR), no need to worry about any loss of vacuum. If you ever get to the point of picking up a canister and installing an EGR - if emissions regulations tighten in your area, for example, then you can worry about hooking it up. In that case, you'll need to move it back to the manifold more than likely. Cross that bridge when you come to it.

You may as well check the PCV valve while you're at it. Just pull it from the valve cover and shake it. If it rattles pretty good, it's probably functioning OK. If no rattle - you can get a replacement for $5-10, just make sure to see if it fits in the parts store parking lot, they may give you the wrong one because their computers don't always ID the correct size.

Good luck, and keep asking questions. You're going to learn a lot about your engine in the coming weeks!
walkerhoundvm is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2012, 11:03 PM   #15
BagusJeep
Web Wheeler
 
BagusJeep's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bali, Indonesia
Posts: 4,411
The fuel supply could, as noted above, do with some help.

If you have a simple fuel filter before the pump, check it is clean and then leave it there. It is a good idea to have one in that location to catch any crud before the pump, though it is not as it left the factory.

You then need to find the FSM for your year and check the fuel supply system. I am not familair with your year so the following comments are for late 70s/ early 80s CJs.

The real fuel filter is a 3 way device that goes in the line just before the carb. It is not expensive and provides you with the fuel return connection, plenty of fuel at the carb inlet and reduces the pressure to around 5psi at that point in the line. It is a few minutes work to insert into the line.

The top port at 12 o'clock can then be connected to the return line and I suspect if you look you will find near the firewall below the carb an orphan aluminium pipe with an open end. This is probably the return line but could be the vent line if yours was fitted with a tank vent that ended in a canister in the engine bay (see pic below). Find it and connect it. Some cars were fitted with vented fuel caps and no vent line to the engine bay and I suspect yours will have this simpler system.

You will see on the diagram below that a US spec car of the early 80s may have 3 different TUBEs running from the tank area to the engine bay:
- Fuel supply
- Fuel return
- Fuel vent (from top of tank)

Dig out the FSM and parts manual for your year to check and there will be some good diagrams of the systems. I attach a few to get you started from the 1980s parts manual.

You do not need much fuel to get it running and idling. I take off the hose near the carb and turn it on the starter. If you get a cup in 30 seconds this is more than the engine will use. If in doubt take the air filter off and work the throttle linkage, you should see fuel shooting out.

If you are not getting fuel look at the HOSES and pump. The pump diaphragm can break and petrol will seep out a small hole at the bottom. They are not expensive.

If the pump is working look at the HOSES and TUBES. Any pinching or cracking?

The HOSE in the fuel lines should not be there, it is a safety hazard. The only HOSE should be short connections at the filters, everything else should be metal TUBE. The HOSE is replaced with the filter, every 1 or 2 years.

Last thing that occurred to me was large vacuum leaks. have you looked over the manifold and carb for missing gaskets, loose bolts, open ports etc?
20-gallon-tank.jpg   fuel-filter-assembly.png   fuel-lines.jpg   vapour-canister.jpg  
__________________
BagusJeep lives in Bali, the Land of Temples.
With a Jeep every prayer counts.

1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
BagusJeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.