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Unread 03-14-2010, 07:47 AM   #16
Mike Romain
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1986 CJ7 
 
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Ignition module bad is my guess.... If it is a Wells brand I have seen more of those dead in the box than working.

I didn't think any place could 'test' that ignition module??? That is a pretty obscure part for them to have a machine to test it with...

One last test is to be sure neither the orange or purple at the distributor can have continuity to ground and to make sure those wires aren't broken where they enter the cap..

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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
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Unread 03-14-2010, 08:18 AM   #17
ccawadew
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I've had it tested at two different places and both said it's good. And I just replaced the stator yesterday, so unless it came bad out of the box, I don't believe that's it either.
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Unread 03-14-2010, 08:29 AM   #18
Electrican
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I know you mentioned you ohmed the orange and puple wire from distributor and it was 600 OHMS but I would check continity to ground on both of these wires. And also visually check the wires to make sure the insulation isnt broken down.

When i had this problem my pick up coil was testing 600 OHMS as well and it wasnt unitl i opened the distributor up and seen the purple and orange wire insulation broken down and pinched. This was causing the spark to ground out at the distributor not allowing it to go to the coil.

So even though your pick up coil tested out I WOULD visually check the wires in the distributor.
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Unread 03-14-2010, 08:49 AM   #19
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccawadew View Post
I've had it tested at two different places and both said it's good. And I just replaced the stator yesterday, so unless it came bad out of the box, I don't believe that's it either.
It wouldn't be the first time an electronic part comes dead in the box....

You also need to test the green wire to ground JeepHammer mentioned, this verifies the ignition modules internal ground path.

Oh, by now your spark plugs could be fouled over so bad it just won't go. I have seen the gas from trying and trying to start it wash down the cylinder heads moving enough crud to totally foul over the plugs. More than one time I have had to pull the plugs out and clean them after ignition box failures.
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 03-14-2010, 09:06 AM   #20
ccawadew
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I opened up the distributor again to check everything, and all looks good. The stator is brand new so wires should be good. I just got back from the auto parts store and had the ignition module tested again and it tested out fine. We sat at the tester and ran it through the testing for 10 minutes. They wanted to get it warmed up, thinking that when they warm up is when they fail. Anyway, it tested out fine. As far as the ground goes, I added the dedicated ground per JeepHammers suggestion yesterday. I'm obviously missing something. I've also tested continuity from one end of the green wire at the ignition module to the other end at the coil and it's fine, no breaks in the wire.

So, I'm getting power to the module through the red and blue wires, but no power out through the green wire. So, to me it does sound like it is the module that's bad, right? But it's testing fine at the parts store.
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Unread 03-14-2010, 09:23 AM   #21
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccawadew View Post
I opened up the distributor again to check everything, and all looks good. The stator is brand new so wires should be good. I just got back from the auto parts store and had the ignition module tested again and it tested out fine. We sat at the tester and ran it through the testing for 10 minutes. They wanted to get it warmed up, thinking that when they warm up is when they fail. Anyway, it tested out fine. As far as the ground goes, I added the dedicated ground per JeepHammers suggestion yesterday. I'm obviously missing something. I've also tested continuity from one end of the green wire at the ignition module to the other end at the coil and it's fine, no breaks in the wire.

So, I'm getting power to the module through the red and blue wires, but no power out through the green wire. So, to me it does sound like it is the module that's bad, right? But it's testing fine at the parts store.
Then the emissions computer may be dead. Do you have to have that part?

It controls both the orange and purple wire's signals. The purple wire at the ignition module goes only to the first plug, then it stops. The purple wire going to the distributor comes from the computer. It also interrupts the orange wire.

You can bypass the emissions computer by using two new wires twisted together for RF reasons and hook the orange and purple at the ignition module to the orange and purple at the distributor. This bypasses the computer.

The timing then should jump up to 15 degrees and will need to be reset to 8-9 BTDC at idle and then you have to manually tune the carb mix. If you go that route, I can show you some links for setting the carb and all the vacuum lines up.
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 03-14-2010, 09:36 AM   #22
ccawadew
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No problem. I'll try the Nutter, see if that works. I've got the instructions printed out. I'll let you know what I come up with.
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Unread 03-14-2010, 10:01 AM   #23
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccawadew View Post
Sorry, I have an '85 with a 258. It is stock, although the wiring has certainly been buggered with plenty.
'Red' wire to module getting power in 'Run' position.... Correct.
'Blue' wire to module getting power in 'Cranking' position... Correct.
'Red wire at coil getting reduced voltage (Dim Light) in 'Run' position... Correct.
'Red' wire at coil getting full voltage (Bright Light) during cranking... Correct.

Your ignition switch, resistor, fuse, ect. all check out,
The 'Issue' is with the engine bay side of the ignition.

I didn't see any mention of the Stator (Distributor Trigger) being checked for 'Ground'...
You simply connect to ONE of the parallel terminals in the trigger connector, and probe the distributor body...
Repeat on the other parallel terminal.
You should show an OPEN circuit.

If you show ANY connection between either of the parallel terminals and ground, then the stator is shot...
Wouldn't be the first one that came out of the box bad!

'Green' wire at coil getting 'Ground' Takes a positive feed from battery to 'Green' wire to find that out... Still waiting....

You missed one test...

Connect to POSITIVE with your test light,
Probe NEGATIVE to see if light is working.

Then DISCONNECT the coil connector, probe the 'Green' wire.
You should get a 'Bright' light.

Then crank the engine and probe the 'Green' wire,
You should get a 'Flashing' light.

If you don't get a 'Flashing' light,

1. The module isn't grounded, can't complete the coil circuit if the module isn't grounded through it's 'Black' wire.
Module grounds through the distributor housing.

2. The trigger signal isn't getting to the module,
That can be connectors, grounded wire someplace between distributor and module,

3. The module is bad and isn't switching with the distirbutor signal, wouldn't be the first time a bad module 'Tested' good when some 12 year old at the discount store didn't know what he was doing...

4. Or the 'Green' wire is compromised between coil and module, keeping the coil from completing it's circuit.

If you get flashing at the 'Green' wire like you are supposed to, it's the coil since everything else is working...
---------------------------

Positive to green coil connector terminal...
This tests the engine engine bay side of the ignition, except for the ignition coil...

The positive from the battery will flow through the 'Green' wire to the module and 'Ground' through the module if the module is 'Grounded'.

This will give you a steady 'Bright' light.
When you crank the engine,
The distributor *SHOULD* send a signal to the module to switch the current to the distirbutor 'On/Off'...

As the engine rotates, the test light should 'Flash' On/Off as the module opens/closes the coil circuit.

If you don't get the flashing at the green wire as you test the coil 'Ground' circuit, then something is wrong.

Either the module isn't getting 'Ground', which you test with the 'Constant Bright' test before you crank the engine...
Or the Trigger signal isn't being produced, or it's being blocked to the module,
Or it's not being processed by the module.

Since you KNOW the module is powered up, (Module 'Red' & 'Blue' wire tests),
And you KNOW the module has 'Ground', (Constant 'Bright' on the 'Green' coil wire before cranking)
It has to be signal getting to the module, or the module it's self.
------------------------------------

If you get the Constant 'On' and the 'Flashing' at the 'Green' coil wire,
Then the only part of the system that can still be causing trouble is the ignition coil it's self...

Last edited by JeepHammer; 03-14-2010 at 10:18 AM..
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Unread 03-14-2010, 10:05 AM   #24
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer View Post
You missed one test...
You missed one test...

The sucker has an emissions computer...
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 03-14-2010, 10:24 AM   #25
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Romain View Post
You missed one test...

The sucker has an emissions computer...
Computer usually defaults to Initial timing when it fails.
I've never seen one fail and then open the circuit completely.
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Unread 03-14-2010, 10:33 AM   #26
ccawadew
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okay, did the test on the green wire, correctly this time. I had the test light switched around before. Anyway, I'm getting constant bright light in 'Run' and constant light when 'Cranking'. So it's the signal getting to the module, or the module it's self? I've got a buddy with an '86 that's used as a daily driver that can come over and we can swap ignition modules to see if that's the culpret.
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Unread 03-14-2010, 10:42 AM   #27
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer View Post
Computer usually defaults to Initial timing when it fails.
I've never seen one fail and then open the circuit completely.
OK... I have never seen one fail that 'didn't' open the ignition circuit. I have seen this more than half a dozen times. It even happened to mine before the nutter days.

Then again I wouldn't see them if they had just jumped to stock timing, I only see the bad ones...
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
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Unread 03-14-2010, 10:45 AM   #28
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccawadew View Post
I've got a buddy with an '86 that's used as a daily driver that can come over and we can swap ignition modules to see if that's the culpret.
Because you had the module tested so many times I would figure it actually works.
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
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