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Unread 12-28-2012, 06:31 AM   #1
JeepGuy66
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1977 129HP 360 any good?

I have an opportunity to pick up a 360 out of 1977 J20. I googled the 360 and apparently for 1977 the HP rating is only 129; which is the weakest of all years it was produced. I currently have a 304 (not sure what year).

Is this engine worth 250.00 (owner says one lifter is not pumping but otherwise runs ok) or should I keep looking?

Thanks!

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Unread 12-28-2012, 06:35 AM   #2
JeepGuy66
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Forgot to mention, the intended use is DD pushing 35" tires. Thanks!
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Unread 12-28-2012, 07:01 AM   #3
Matt1981CJ7
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JeepGuy,

I think the HP ratings during that period had more to do with crude emission systems, than actual engine spec.

If memory serves me, the block and heads on a 1977 should be the same as later years. If you are planning a complete re-build the original HP ratings are meaningless.

What is included with the engine? Flywheel, alternator, power-steering pump, carb, air-cleaner, fan, etc....?

edit: (also, the 129 hp rating in 1977 was using a 2-barrel carb, instead of 4.)

Matt
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Unread 12-28-2012, 07:17 AM   #4
JeepGuy66
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Hi Matt,

I confirmed everything is included. Fan to flywheel and carb to oil pan. Haven't confirmed whether he has the air cleaner assembly but I have one anyway.

I'm not sure if I'm planning a complete rebuild; checking prices now. Titan engines is not too far. They're getting back to me today to see if they have a 360 core ready to build. If they do, I believe they will take my 304 as a core exchange; i'll have to confirm. If they do not have a core then I would have to pay a core fee of about 300 anyway so worst case scenario 250.00 for the engine plus all the goodies sounds like good deal. I guess ultimately I'd like to run the 360 as is if possible for a little while at least. Was concerned that it was a less desirable engine but like you said if I get a rebuild then original specs go out the window.
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Unread 12-28-2012, 07:17 AM   #5
davbytrace
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If it is a complete engine, I would buy it in a heartbeat. BUT, in general, you can buy a reman one for the same price as building one yourself when it's all said and done.
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Unread 12-28-2012, 07:34 AM   #6
Matt1981CJ7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepGuy66 View Post
Hi Matt,

I confirmed everything is included. Fan to flywheel and carb to oil pan. Haven't confirmed whether he has the air cleaner assembly but I have one anyway.

I'm not sure if I'm planning a complete rebuild; checking prices now. Titan engines is not too far. They're getting back to me today to see if they have a 360 core ready to build. If they do, I believe they will take my 304 as a core exchange; i'll have to confirm. If they do not have a core then I would have to pay a core fee of about 300 anyway so worst case scenario 250.00 for the engine plus all the goodies sounds like good deal. I guess ultimately I'd like to run the 360 as is if possible for a little while at least. Was concerned that it was a less desirable engine but like you said if I get a rebuild then original specs go out the window.
If the block, pistons, cam, crank, and heads are all good, and all the accessories are included, then $250 is a great deal, IMO. He!!, I paid nearly that for a new flywheel for mine.

If you're looking for more performance, you'll probably want to swap in a 4-barrel, which will require a new intake manifold. A different cam would help too, but then you're looking at a new valve-train.

It just depends on how far you want to go with it. I managed 314 HP and 350# torque out of my 360 re-build, but I also replaced almost everything but the crank.

Matt
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Unread 12-28-2012, 07:46 AM   #7
JeepGuy66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
If the block, pistons, cam, crank, and heads are all good, and all the accessories are included, then $250 is a great deal, IMO. He!!, I paid nearly that for a new flywheel for mine.

If your looking for more performance, you'll probably want to swap in a 4-barrel, which will require a new intake manifold. A different cam would help too, but then you're looking at a new valve-train.

It just depends on how far you want to go with it. I managed 314 HP and 350# torque out of my 360 re-build, but I also replaced almost everything but the crank.

Matt
Matt, that's good point. As mentioned, one of the lifters doesn't pump which could mean a bad cam, no? I also read a lot of posts where in some cases using Seafoam or ATF is a miracle cure for a lifter not pumping. Big difference in cost between the two. So we might be talking 275.00 (sorry I said 250.00 but he won't go below 275) for a core which is still reasonable especially considering all the goodies that come with.

But back to the original question regarding the lowest HP of all production years for the 360. If I am able to run it as is, will this be a disappointing ride considering I currently have a 304 (not sure what year)?

Thanks!
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Unread 12-28-2012, 07:55 AM   #8
Matt1981CJ7
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Honestly, if you keep the '77 360 in stock form, with the 2-barrel carb, I think you'll be disappointed with the performance.

129 ponies is on par with the 258 I6. It's rather unbelievable to me that AMC would de-tune the 360 that much.

Matt
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Unread 12-28-2012, 08:01 AM   #9
JeepGuy66
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That's pretty much what I was looking for. Thanks!
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Unread 12-28-2012, 08:26 AM   #10
lucdog
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How do the torque numbers compare with the 304 vs the 360?
I think I would look at a AMC forum, or IFSJA, for info on increasing the HP numbers of the 1977. I would think the bore and stroke is the same as other years.
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
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Unread 12-28-2012, 08:38 AM   #11
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It's not Necessarily a lifter gone bad either, it's entirely possible the cam has flat spots.
I would venture to say a better ignition system with more advance at the dizzy would show good results.
From 1971 on the heads were the same AFAIK. 360's had the same size Valves as a SBC with double hump heads. 2.02 intakes, and 1.68 exhaust.
All engines of the mid to late 70's had low HP. I had a 400ci Pontiac GP with about 160 HP .
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 12-28-2012, 08:46 AM   #12
swatson454
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I know that somewhere in the seventies, the OEMs changed their engine (motor ) output ratings from "Standard" which was sea level, 68* air temp and I don't remember what density, to "SAE" rating which was something different and showed a lower output for a given brake torque value.

I believe at the same time they also started rating the engines with all the accessories, single exhaust with God-awful y pipe, cat, muffler, tail pipe...

If that year is the first one to nose dive, power wise, I suppose it's possible that it's just a victim of changing the way they rated power.

Either way, a cam swap and 4 barrel would whip it right back into shape.


Shawn
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Unread 12-28-2012, 08:51 AM   #13
JeepGuy66
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It's looking more like I should pick this up. Worst case scenario...use it as core for a remanufactured one and keep/reuse/sell all the goodies. Best case scenario get a little more life out it before I spend 2K on a new one.
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Unread 12-28-2012, 04:54 PM   #14
hutch1200
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I could have kept my stock pistons w/ 90k on them. The cylinders even had a decent cross hatch on them yet, so you might re-use the pistons! Bottom end was fine. Mill the heads a tad to bring the compression up a little bit. Get a dremel and spend 10 hours w/a porting book/manual, don't go crazy, just smooth it up a tad. 1/2 hour per cylinder will yield great results. And have a valve job done. My cam bearings collapsed when I took the cam out. So plan on those, and an RV cam....I'm looking at you for specs here shawn! A modern ignition, used dual plane 4V manifold, re-manned Holley Avenger carb, and free flow exhaust should get you to 250+HP. Double-ish a stock 304. And a really nice grin when ya get into the loud pedal!
Just my rambling 2 cents for a lightly warmed over, reliable, DD engine.
Of course THIS is the engine I should have built. But I got the "for a few bucks more, I might as well".....and "W/THIS combo I bet I could break 400hp!". DOH!
I say go for it, keep it modest and do as much as you can yourself.
Good luck
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Unread 12-28-2012, 06:25 PM   #15
swatson454
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Hutch, ol buddy, I did that very thing and went (hindsight here) from a perfect 4x4 383 that was good for 405 hp @ 5k and I believe 465ish (IIRC) torque at just below 4k to an engine that made much more power with FAR less drivability in the same, big truck.

I'm pretty-much out of the cam recommendation business around here but I know how I would personally approach it.

What you said about the cylinder heads is solid gold. Check out David Vizard's book on cylinder heads for some really good stuff.

The main question is: what does he want and what will he spend to get there?

I'm limited to what I can do on this phone app but I'll try to edit this later.


Shawn
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