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Unread 09-30-2005, 11:43 PM   #16
dwilliams35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrubio
Would it be easier for a hunter to kill someone compared to a tree lover?
I really don't think so: the difference isn't in "having killed before", and just escalating the scale of the "killee": it's in the delineation between humans and lesser animals. Being a hunter doesn't in any way mean that you don't have any moral aversion to crossing that line.

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Unread 09-30-2005, 11:46 PM   #17
Jeepsterboy101
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I think it really depends on the situation. Anything to do with my family and friends, definately. A stranger? Maybe.....just depends on the situation I guess.
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Unread 09-30-2005, 11:49 PM   #18
rrubio
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If you knew for a fact that you could get away with it would you?
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Unread 09-30-2005, 11:54 PM   #19
dwilliams35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kapplera
Well, for me, a crime can be evil in itself when it hinders the forward development of humanity (in vein with Kant). One of the natural purposes of life is to ensure survival of the species, so anything that disrupts that survival is something that needs to be prevented. Murder clearly destroys the fabric of survival, so it ought to be prohibited. So, to answer your question, it is mala in se and not mala prohibita. Rape is another example of a mala in se crime.

With that being said, murder is different from self protection. I will kill a person, if need be, in order to protect my family or myself.
Pardon my "emboldening" of your text to make my point: That "for me" is the key to what I'm saying. Sure, to you or I murder or rape would tend to be a slam-dunk mala in se crime: However, if you really get down to it, it is simply a principle that has been set in the stone of human "right and wrong" over the years: Lesser animals will, at times, commit killings which, if committed by humans, would be cold blooded murder. Is it wrong for them to do so, and are they capable of knowing that it is wrong if so? Thus, would not the human conscientious nature be the single factor at play here? Without the introduction of God and the Ten Commandments or whatever divine law one may subscribe to, I would suggest the possibility that ANYTHING is mala prohibita, simply because humans, at some point in some cave, decided that such crimes were wrong and should be outlawed. Thus, when that decision was made, it actually was a mala prohibita crime: centuries of tradition, along with the influence of religious doctrine, have completed the transformation into what our law would presently call a mala in se crime. If there are not now, nor had there ever been, any prohibition against murder; no centuries of parents teaching their children that it is wrong, etc., would we as humans just genetically know that it is wrong, or would we be killing each other with no thought of guilt or evil?
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Unread 10-01-2005, 12:00 AM   #20
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Well, if it's me or them, I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure it's them.
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Unread 10-01-2005, 12:09 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwilliams35
Pardon my "emboldening" of your text to make my point: That "for me" is the key to what I'm saying. Sure, to you or I murder or rape would tend to be a slam-dunk mala in se crime: However, if you really get down to it, it is simply a principle that has been set in the stone of human "right and wrong" over the years: Lesser animals will, at times, commit killings which, if committed by humans, would be cold blooded murder. Is it wrong for them to do so, and are they capable of knowing that it is wrong if so? Thus, would not the human conscientious nature be the single factor at play here? Without the introduction of God and the Ten Commandments or whatever divine law one may subscribe to, I would suggest the possibility that ANYTHING is mala prohibita, simply because humans, at some point in some cave, decided that such crimes were wrong and should be outlawed. Thus, when that decision was made, it actually was a mala prohibita crime: centuries of tradition, along with the influence of religious doctrine, have completed the transformation into what our law would presently call a mala in se crime. If there are not now, nor had there ever been, any prohibition against murder; no centuries of parents teaching their children that it is wrong, etc., would we as humans just genetically know that it is wrong, or would we be killing each other with no thought of guilt or evil?
Well taken. It is practically impossible in our current socialized state to determine what is actually mala prohibita versus mala in se due to centuries of socialization. However, consider the eloquent Rousseau who believed that natural man is the best form of man and that even natural man would not want to inflict pain on another man. This sort of observation reflects that murder is mala in se.

Is it instinct for a "lesser" animal to look away at violence and gore? Is it instinct for a human to look away at violence and gore? What is your gut reaction to seeing or hearing about murders? Would be different withour our socialization?

Perhaps a look at modern day scenarios could shed some light. What do terrorists think about murder? How about the reported murders and other violent attacks in the wake of Katrina? These observations reflect that murder is mala prohibita.

As I said in my first post, I lean towards the former (and more optimistic view) of humanity. But, my friend, you very well may be right.
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Unread 10-01-2005, 07:08 PM   #22
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Well, the last time it was a draft notice...
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Unread 10-01-2005, 07:22 PM   #23
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If any one harmed or threatened imenet harm to any family or friend or even a person on the street, had the means to carry out said threat, were in the process of carrying out the threat or any MJ pedophile types that I caught molesting any kid I wouldn't even blink an eye in taking them out. If I caught some one molesting/raping my daughters or my wife, They would pray for me to kill them or the police to save them. If the cops got them first, I would pay some death row/lifer to take good care of them for me.
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Unread 10-01-2005, 07:25 PM   #24
rowdy1
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The easiest way to set me off would be messing with my family. I really hurt someone once for this reason,don't think it would take much more to kill someone
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Unread 10-01-2005, 08:29 PM   #25
nomad6
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what would it take?

a sharp knife perhaps, thats what i'd use
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Unread 10-01-2005, 09:14 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrubio
Just as the title states.
Very little. I'm serious, very little. As WarEagle pointed out, whithout laws to hold me accountable, there'd be a lot of dead people.

I'm not a phyco, just saying some people act the way they do BECAUSE there are laws to stop others from killing them.

Killing is a part of natural law. Death is a regulatory necessity. What tweeks my cheeks is the fact that there are so many people on Death row who are in fact....ALIVE! I wish more states would follow through. Texas is bashed by some, but at least we follow through. These people are not bettering society one bit. WHen was the last time a inmate found the cure for any kind of life threatening disease!

There has been bittch'n about killing the mentally handicap, minors, and women, but seriously folks....... don't do the crime unless you can handle dying for what you did. It's why I don't have a body count............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........................or do I?
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Unread 10-01-2005, 09:22 PM   #27
JVracer04
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what would it take for me to kill someone?

go touch my jeep... it wont take long to find out... and for future reference the white light isnt my flood lights


and no really... ima a pretty passive person but under the right conditions it doesnt take much for me to snap. Id prolly kill someone if i was severly f-ed up on sumthing and my moral standards went out the door. Its not hard to get away with murder.
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Unread 10-01-2005, 09:29 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrubio
Would it be easier for a hunter to kill someone compared to a tree lover?

Why did you have to drag me into your little scheme?

I wasn't serious about the kids in the green WJ last summer, Geez.


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Unread 10-01-2005, 09:43 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrubio
Would it be easier for a hunter to kill someone compared to a tree lover?
Dunno...some of them environmentalists are seriously screwed in the head. Most hunters I know aren't in it for "the kill" as much as they are for the meat. I mean, if they spend a day in the woods and carry nothing out but their gun, they're still pretty content with the experience of getting away from it all and having a relaxing day.
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Unread 10-01-2005, 11:14 PM   #30
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Quote:
I would kill someone without blinking an eye if some pervert touched my daughters.
AMEN! And it wouldn't be nice...
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