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Unread 02-03-2008, 04:54 AM   #16
SlimShady
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Originally Posted by ratmonkey View Post
no one should ever work harder than they have to. americans already are asked to do twice the work their parents did for less money(accounting for inflation).
no one should do someone else's job, especially if they aren't qualified for it.

there certainly are some protections that the govt offers workers, but you'd be surprised at just how little there are. and a lot of companies like to disregard them when they can get away with it.

unions are there to keep companies honest. though i do see enough people on the job that wouldn't get by if there wasn't job protection for them.

You couldn't have made a better case for the disbanding on Unions in this country if you'd tried.

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Unread 02-03-2008, 06:20 AM   #17
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I have been a member of construction unions and a utility union. The stereotype applies more to those that are not construction IMO. In construction deadlines still have to be met, and we work hard to meet them. I find that there are other unions that protect the worker more as far as laziness, but in construction I could simply give them a lay-off.

I'm not in management anymore and I am happy about it. I see some people who abuse the system with the number of sick days they use but they do not get punished. In my experience it is not because they are a member of a union though, it was because they were black or in another case a woman.


To the OP, you might have money deducted from your check that goes to a PAC, political action committee, and that deduction is by law voluntary. Just ignore the calls, they just want to protect their work. They fail to see anything else that the Dems support like amnesty for illegal aliens. If you really want to tick them off register as a Republican.
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Unread 02-03-2008, 06:39 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by ratmonkey View Post
unions are just as important today as they were 100 years ago.

businesses are just as ruthless as they were then, and in some cases are even worse.

do you really think that businesses today want to pay you a living wage? want to cover part of your healthcare? want to pay you if you get hurt on the job?

everything everyone takes for granted in the workforce these days was fought for by unions, and is still being fought for.
That's ridiculous! The only thing unions due today is protect lazy, overpaid workers. Basically, it says that no matter how much worker A produces, he's only gonna get paid the same as worker B.

Wanna know why jobs are going to Mexico or overseas? Unions! Plain and simple.
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Unread 02-03-2008, 06:48 AM   #19
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You obviously missed my post. I personally laid off people who did not perform. I fail to see how that protects their job. It is an incentive to work harder.
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Unread 02-03-2008, 07:15 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by RockWoRM View Post



This is about Unions... like or dislike...



I've been a member of a Union all my life. I firmly believe in Unions as far as wages and benifits for jobs, in relation to labor. Being in construction, it has been a big asset.

However, I just got a recorded message from the Union, today, telling me to vote for Hillary, b/c they, have decided that's who I and all other union members should vote for. Why should my monthly union dues go towards politcal garbage, be it Dem OR GOP???

I call BS!!!

ok, I'm done.
DUH!!! That is the reason for the Union. Any monkey with a set of wire cutters can call themselves an electrician if you have a plunger you are a plumber. The union is there to throw weight behind the working man. How do they do that. By all of the workers coming together and putting their voice behind one common goal. Politics is one of those areas that a union is involved in. You have been union all of your life. Either you haven't been union long or you have been for 30 years and never gave a crap about the policies and actions of the union until now. If you are just figuring this out now then you didn't research before becoming a union member you only went for the benefits. Based on your post I would put you in the lazy worthless group that everyone mentions when they discuss unions. You get paid the same amount as the guys who are there everyday doing their job and also fighting for the union and the contracts. Probably only go to the hall when your employer tells you to go vote against something that will hurt him. You jump then because it may affect your job.

You really enjoy the benefits of the wage, medical care and retirement. How do you think you got it, yep they got everyone on the phone and said hey we are going to negotiate for a good wage and insurance and we need you to come to the union hall or mail back the ballot to show you support it. Yep it works good for your wages and insurance to get everyone together under one umbrella to support the contract but not to support a political candidate.

To those who say the laws in place now protect the workers, unions have no place in todays economy. You are so wrong you think you are right. Unions got those laws put in place to protect not only the union members but all workers. Those laws would not disappear if the unions disappeared but they would not be enforced, there would be no group to provide oversight. It would be like China we would be working 20 hours a day for $5 a day. No common voice no group of people backing each other up, no rights.

You can vote all day long for the person who you think is the right person. I can't tell you who to vote for. But I would hope you would vote along the union lines, to add your voice to the common voice, to show that the working man still has a voice and will use it to ensure they are taken care of. The nation rides on our back we should stand together and all help carry it.

Then everyone complains that if they vote dem or gop that they will take away this right or that right. Yes they might, but if you stand with a collective group and vote for your way of life and income then you will have a job and be able to afford to fight for the other concerns you have. If you vote the other way and the government sees the workers are no longer a force to be reckoned with, they will outsource all of the jobs, we will all be providing a service like cashier at Walmart, and be unable to spend any time fighting for our other rights because we will be to concerned with putting food on the table and keeping the roof over our heads and forget about healthcare for our kids.

Yes the union carries a lot of dead weight. Not because they have to it is because the foremen are to wussiefied to get rid of them. I don't care how much support you muster up behind you when I fire you. I walk in with proof of a verbal reprimand regarding an indiscretion, written proof with examples of ways you canimprove and your signature showing you understand. Then the paper showing why I fired you they have no leg to stand on.

The union is not to protect those who are doing wrong it is there to protect those who are done wrong.
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Unread 02-03-2008, 07:34 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Grape Ape View Post
To those who say the laws in place now protect the workers, unions have no place in todays economy. You are so wrong you think you are right. Unions got those laws put in place to protect not only the union members but all workers. Those laws would not disappear if the unions disappeared but they would not be enforced, there would be no group to provide oversight. It would be like China we would be working 20 hours a day for $5 a day. No common voice no group of people backing each other up, no rights.
According to the Department of Labor, only 12.5% (15.4MM) of the US workforce is represented by a union. You're asserting that 1/8 of this country is responsible for the labor laws that protect the other 7/8, and that if that 1/8 disappeared, the remaining 7/8 would be powerless to protect themselves.

Do I have that right?
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Unread 02-03-2008, 08:52 AM   #22
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Unions??

In 77 the place where I worked ( A major Chemical Plant) was setup to vote on a union.
I was asked if I supported it. My answer was no way.
A lot of states have the right to work law. You do not have to be a union member to work there.
I would never work for a union as I would not work for the MAFIA.
Corrupt unions think they run the country.
Unions were good in the 50's but should have been disbanded as Regan did the Airport controllers that refused to go back to work. My friend refused and was fired and never worked as a controller again.
Unions are corrupt and need done away with.
That is my opinion and might not be shared with others.
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Unread 02-03-2008, 09:29 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by ratmonkey View Post
no one should ever work harder than they have to.
Unless of course they want to get noticed, get promoted, or get the hell out of the dead-end job that they're doing today. Your "do the least amount of work necessary" philosophy is very sad, and is one of the many reasons I can't stand unions.

And to the OP: if you've been a lifelong union member and are just now realizing how politicized they are, then you just haven't been paying attention. The blinders they gave you with your initial union membership materials must be doing their job well.
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Unread 02-03-2008, 09:35 AM   #24
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I don't mean to offend anybody, but when people say that unions are still necessary because people have to work harder than they ever did and that companies are still ruthless, or whatever, I don't think they completely understand the economic and financial conditions that a business has to operate in.
How would you define work? In most cases, people today do not physically work near as hard as they used to have to.
As far as businesses being ruthless and taking advantage of their workers (although sometimes this is true) there is often simply not enough money there. Being involved with a couple of small businesses myself and being a business student, I see that money simply isn't there. People always want to complain that everything is made in China, yet they expect firms to assume much higher costs to operate in this country. People seem to get upset other people making a profit, yet that is what capitalism is based on.
As far as voting, anyone should vote for whoever they want to, that is the reason for the secret ballot.

This is my opinion, but nobody has to agree with me.
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Unread 02-03-2008, 09:35 AM   #25
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Labor Unions are PURE socialism! That is why the support Democrats. If you are a member of a labor union and despise liberal democrats your union dues GET THEM ELECTED!!!!!
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Unread 02-03-2008, 09:37 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unsung View Post
I have been a member of construction unions and a utility union. The stereotype applies more to those that are not construction IMO. In construction deadlines still have to be met, and we work hard to meet them. I find that there are other unions that protect the worker more as far as laziness, but in construction I could simply give them a lay-off..
Well said. That pretty much how it is here.

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Originally Posted by unsung View Post
To the OP, you might have money deducted from your check that goes to a PAC, political action committee, and that deduction is by law voluntary. Just ignore the calls, they just want to protect their work. They fail to see anything else that the Dems support like amnesty for illegal aliens. If you really want to tick them off register as a Republican.
I do vote the way I want. That isn't really the issue.
What irks me is when they take my dues money and use those millions to support ONE polital party. Then they come back to me and tell me they don't have enough money to fund my health insurance. Then they take more $$$ out of my paycheck and raise my dues. THAT's where I call BS!




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Unread 02-03-2008, 10:14 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Grape Ape View Post
Politics is one of those areas that a union is involved in. You have been union all of your life. Either you haven't been union long or you have been for 30 years and never gave a crap about the policies and actions of the union until now. If you are just figuring this out now then you didn't research before becoming a union member you only went for the benefits.
Based on your post I would put you in the lazy worthless group that everyone mentions when they discuss unions. You get paid the same amount as the guys who are there everyday doing their job and also fighting for the union and the contracts. Probably only go to the hall when your employer tells you to go vote against something that will hurt him. You jump then because it may affect your job.
Nice of you to make such big assumption's, there. and thanks for name calling, there, pal.


Yeah, I have been in nearly 30 years, but I hav'nt been on JU GD for that long.

This crap has been going on ever since I was an apprentice, and I've always given a crap. But they do this ever 4 years and it suks. Like I said, I'm totally behind the Union as it pertains to the worker... but unlike you, I don't buy into the bull about ONLY the dems will get behind the worker. I believe in one voice for the worker, but not for the politcians, which this has turned into. Maybe your happy with that, I"m not. I have a right to say so. But I do'nt have a say about where my money goes... that's what suks.

Quote:
Yep it works good for your wages and insurance to get everyone together under one umbrella to support the contract but not to support a political candidate.
Yep, your right. It should be there for the worker, not the political BS'ing candidate.




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Unread 02-03-2008, 10:15 AM   #28
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When i still worked at the hospital our union told us to vote for Kerry... that didn't happen either...
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Unread 02-03-2008, 10:40 AM   #29
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You couldn't have made a better case for the disbanding on Unions in this country if you'd tried.
Thank you for saving me the typing.
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Unread 02-03-2008, 01:25 PM   #30
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Rockworm, you could always go back to the non union sector. Then you won't have your union dues being used to support a politician. It is real easy just walk out the door and find a new job.

It is just like when people complain about the USA, don't like it don't let it bug you just leave and find something more in line with your thinking.
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