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Unread 12-30-2007, 06:55 PM   #1
RWB214
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Separation between Church and State

Is anyone else sick of hearing all the right-wing politicians trying to make the next election a religious issue? http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071230/...kabee_religion

According to John McCain, the Constitution established the United States as a "Christian nation." http://www.wibw.com/news/headlines/12925887.html

I wouldn't vote for anyone who is promoting any religion. Government shouldn't be influenced by that.

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Unread 12-30-2007, 07:01 PM   #2
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I agree...you should get rid of everything issued by the government that makes any reference to God and send it to me. What you have laying around that says "In God We Trust" and stuff like that...
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Unread 12-30-2007, 07:18 PM   #3
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What we need to do is ban Christians from holding any political office! Of course we should have started with our founding fathers, like Patrick Henry who said, “It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ.” For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here. [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]

And don't forget guys like James Madison in 1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia who said, “We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.”

And also that trouble maker George Washington, who during his inauguration, took the oath as prescribed by the Constitution but added several religious components to that official ceremony. Before taking his oath of office, he summoned a Bible on which to take the oath, added the words “So help me God!” to the end of the oath, then leaned over and kissed the Bible.

How dare they!




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Last edited by grogie; 12-30-2007 at 08:23 PM..
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Unread 12-30-2007, 07:30 PM   #4
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What annoys me is the misinterpretation of seperation of Church and State. This term was meant to clarify our Gub'ment could not impose a specific religion upon its citizens. People are free to worship as they wish. Hence, the term seperation of Church and State. It was not meant to remove God from everything within the borders of the U.S. This country was founded on religious principles. I do not attend church, and I am not really a religious person, but I get tired of every whiny piss ant who is offended by the word "God" thinking he can use seperation as a reason to impose his will. It has gotten to where the offended minority in the country dictate what happens to the majority.
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Unread 12-30-2007, 07:30 PM   #5
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It amazes me that there are still antidisestablishmentarians around today. We have a secular government as we well should, and it should stay that way. We can not have an official religion in this country, and to think we should is asinine.

That being said a candidate having religious beliefs has nothing to do with the separation of church and state, so I don't understand your topic title.

I hate the referencing of quotes from over 100 years ago when talking about modern day issues. Trying to apply those type of quotes to todays arguments is kind of stupid, regardless of who said them. Yeah we get that this country was founded by Christians but what difference does that make? Atheists, Agnostics, modern scientists and a vast population containing a multitude of religious and spiritual beliefs were virtually non-existent during the years of George Washington. Different times and different people.
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Unread 12-30-2007, 07:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS33
It amazes me that there are still antidisestablishmentarians around today. We have a secular government as we well should, and it should stay that way. We can not have an official religion in this country, and to think we should is asinine.

That being said a candidate having religious beliefs has nothing to do with the separation of church and state, so I don't understand your topic title.

I hate the referencing of quotes from over 100 years ago when talking about modern day issues. Trying to apply those type of quotes to todays arguments is kind of stupid, regardless of who said them. Yeah we get that this country was founded by Christians but what difference does that make? Atheists, Agnostics, modern scientists and a vast population containing a multitude of religious and spiritual beliefs were virtually non-existent during the years of George Washington. Different times and different people.
Yeah, we don't need those Christians and their dangerous ideas anymore do we?
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Unread 12-30-2007, 07:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grogie
Yeah, we don't need those Christians and their dangerous ideas anymore do we?

So I take it you want a Christian theocracy? The moral code of this country should not be derived from a religion, much of what is in the bible goes against my personal beliefs, so how would it be fair to me and many others to have the guidelines taken from the bible used in our government?
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Unread 12-30-2007, 07:49 PM   #8
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I didn't say that, nor did our founding fathers. I just find it amazing how the left's tolerance ends when it comes to Christians. Everyone is okay and everything that they want to do, but no Christians!
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Unread 12-30-2007, 07:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegasjeepguy
I agree...you should get rid of everything issued by the government that makes any reference to God and send it to me. What you have laying around that says "In God We Trust" and stuff like that...
and everyone else who feels that way can send theirs to me
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Unread 12-30-2007, 08:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grogie
I didn't say that, nor did our founding fathers. I just find it amazing how the left's tolerance ends when it comes to Christians. Everyone is okay and everything that they want to do, but no Christians!

That's because Christians push their beliefs on others constantly, and the Christian faith more so than any other has influence on governmental policy. I tolerate pretty much every faith, I can't think of one I don't, but I don't think any should influence policy. I think it is safe to say many of the founding fathers weren't model Christians as well .
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Unread 12-30-2007, 08:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS33
That's because Christians push their beliefs on others constantly, and the Christian faith more so than any other has influence on governmental policy. I tolerate pretty much every faith, I can't think of one I don't, but I don't think any should influence policy. I think it is safe to say many of the founding fathers weren't model Christians as well .
People are people, no matter what their beliefs are. I'll admit there are some real nuts in society, religious or not. But if some politician wants to talk about Jesus and that he reads the Bible, live with it. If his morality offends you, there are always the Clintons to vote for.
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Unread 12-30-2007, 08:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS33
That's because Christians push their beliefs on others constantly, and the Christian faith more so than any other has influence on governmental policy. I tolerate pretty much every faith, I can't think of one I don't, but I don't think any should influence policy. I think it is safe to say many of the founding fathers weren't model Christians as well .
Which Christians are threatening us with our lives if we don't become Christians?

Which Christians are trying to establish religous law like Sharia law?

Which Christians are killing innocent people in the name of their religion?

Which Christians are invading 3rd world nations in Africa and are killing hundreds of thousands of people of other faiths?

Which Christians knocked down skyscrapers in the name of their religion?


Your idea of "pushing beliefs" on people is pretty distorted. Christians have the same free speech you have. You have the same right to not listen as the next guy.
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Unread 12-30-2007, 08:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS33
goes against my personal beliefs, so how would it be fair to me and many others to have the guidelines taken from the bible used in our government?

Curious what kind of examples you could provide.
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Unread 12-30-2007, 08:20 PM   #14
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Separation of church and state was meant to keep the state out of the church not the church out of the state. Furthermore, these people aren't elected yet sooooo they really aren't a part of the "state (as president)."

Like it or not, religion has always been a part of politics, and this country was built on christian ideals. How long have you been asleep?

Do you think political speeches or politics in general are anything more than opinions? There are people who have run for president with much more radical views than christianity. If you don't agree you just don't support them.
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Unread 12-30-2007, 08:42 PM   #15
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In a nation where everything is based on majority rule why is it so hard for people to understand why the beliefs of Christians are the ones that are most followed in policy. Christians make up over 75% of the population. Yep they are the majority so until another religious group gets the majority then the Christian way is going to be the basis for the nations politics and way of doing things.

I am not saying you have to like it or even accept it but sadly that is the way it is.
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