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Unread 01-17-2011, 12:36 AM   #16
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You might also look at the Howa 30-06 as they are the manufacturer for the barrel and action for the Weatherby Vanguard rifled.

I have a heavy barrel Howa .223 rifle and with good ammo you can empty the clip in a dime size hole at 150 yards.

Something to consider if you are on a budget. They actually make some decent stuff.

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Unread 01-17-2011, 08:49 AM   #17
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Does it have to be one of the ones you mentioned? You can find a Rem. 700 for that price if you check around.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 09:17 AM   #18
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Lot of great info here, I shoot alot and have bought and sold guns for more than 30 years. I can say from experience that the Savage is as good a gun you will ever buy at any price. I have seen them at 300 yard shoots smoke guns costing more than a grand or better. The new mossbergs are getting a lot better and for a low price budget gun they are gainig popularity. Like someone else said the CZ is an excellant gun and the ones I have owned shot as well out of the box as my custom rifles. Bottom line if I am looking for a rifle on a budget I am buying a Savage, you wont regreat it.
Good luck, Stan
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Unread 01-17-2011, 10:33 AM   #19
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'Flimsy' stocks aren't nec a problem. One oof the rifles I picked up last year was a savage edge with a reported flimsy wrist area. If you lock it in a vice and lean on the action, the wrist flexes. To make it happen puts stress on a stock in a way its impossible to while shooting. Mine with deerloads and cheap bullets put in touching group after touching group and moa or better seems to be the norm. Even though folks are trying to find a fix for the supposed problem, I don't see the point.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 11:12 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy View Post
'Flimsy' stocks aren't nec a problem. One oof the rifles I picked up last year was a savage edge with a reported flimsy wrist area. If you lock it in a vice and lean on the action, the wrist flexes. To make it happen puts stress on a stock in a way its impossible to while shooting. Mine with deerloads and cheap bullets put in touching group after touching group and moa or better seems to be the norm. Even though folks are trying to find a fix for the supposed problem, I don't see the point.
Put a high speed cam on it and watch it flex during recoil. Better a floppy wrist that forend though. Floppy wrists don't touch the barrel.

I am not arguing that your rifle doesn't shoot. There are exceptions to every rule. I have a Ruger 77/22 where the stock touches the barrel on the right side. This causes it to string to the left when you really heat it up. It also needs trigger work. I am more than capable of fixing both issues. Why haven't I? Because I have been shooting it since I was a kid and if you master the trigger and don't shoot it so fast it shoots tiny tiny groups. At 50 yards it will put 10 rounds into a hole so small that people think it's a 3 shot. Should every body make their stock touch one side of their barrel? No, It's a fluke.

My Dad has a Tikka Continental Varminter. One bolt lug barely even makes contact (very unusual for Tikka). I think it just gets a kiss under recoil. All wisdom would say lap the lugs to cure that problem. Why haven't I? Well, It's the most accurate rifle I have ever shot.

Somewhere out there an AK exists that would shoot 1/2" groups with match ammo. I know it.

Rifles are part science and part voodoo. While your rifle and the ones I mentioned are heavy on the voodoo, most will shoot far better from a rigid stock, perfect symetricallity of the bolt/receiver/chamber/bore, and a barrel that is either perfectly bedded to the stock or free floated from it. If I had to enter a shooting contest with an unknown rifle of my choice for everything I own I would bet on one with a VERY stiff stock among other things.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 02:23 PM   #21
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Thanks for the advice everyone. I am not looking to shoot MOA groups or anything serious. Most of the deer I hunt have been well under 50 yards anyhow.

I decided to just go with the Savage 111, and get the trigger done. Most of these "drop in" triggers require gun smithing, and I am not about to tamper with a firearm for safety reasons. I will take it to a gun smith.

I am not concerned about a plastic stock. Who needs a beautiful gun? The deer don't know what you are shooting. Wood is overrated. Stock flex I think is more of a snob thing than anything. I have seen people shoot SUB MOA groups with polymer stocks. It's the rifleman, not the rifle.

I mean, ****, people were killing stuff at a 100 yards 130 years ago with balls and caps.

Appreciate the advice, really I do everyone.

There is a gun show coming up on February 6th, I am going to see what kind of deals they have there.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 02:42 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Coyotes97 View Post
Put a high speed cam on it and watch it flex during recoil. Better a floppy wrist that forend though. Floppy wrists don't touch the barrel.

I am not arguing that your rifle doesn't shoot. There are exceptions to every rule. I have a Ruger 77/22 where the stock touches the barrel on the right side. This causes it to string to the left when you really heat it up. It also needs trigger work. I am more than capable of fixing both issues. Why haven't I? Because I have been shooting it since I was a kid and if you master the trigger and don't shoot it so fast it shoots tiny tiny groups. At 50 yards it will put 10 rounds into a hole so small that people think it's a 3 shot. Should every body make their stock touch one side of their barrel? No, It's a fluke.

My Dad has a Tikka Continental Varminter. One bolt lug barely even makes contact (very unusual for Tikka). I think it just gets a kiss under recoil. All wisdom would say lap the lugs to cure that problem. Why haven't I? Well, It's the most accurate rifle I have ever shot.

Somewhere out there an AK exists that would shoot 1/2" groups with match ammo. I know it.

Rifles are part science and part voodoo. While your rifle and the ones I mentioned are heavy on the voodoo, most will shoot far better from a rigid stock, perfect symetricallity of the bolt/receiver/chamber/bore, and a barrel that is either perfectly bedded to the stock or free floated from it. If I had to enter a shooting contest with an unknown rifle of my choice for everything I own I would bet on one with a VERY stiff stock among other things.
Agreed, the rifle line as a whole has been showing a rep for being good shooters, not just mine in particular. I fall in to the rule rather than the exception category which doesn't bother me a bit. I'd rather have a 'normal' rifle than spend all my time trying to convince people that my Mosin can shoot MOA

Perfect example, another board I'm on has a guy that just bought an edge and spent weeks 'fixing' the wrist before he put 1 round through it including cutting out, angle tubing, rebuilding etc then returned amazing results that mirrored what everyone did right out of the box. Flexy wrist or no, if it's not broke I'm not fixing it. I have taken the trigger weight down considerably but haven't had a chance to fire it since. I could get mine to flex, but it took a good chunk of my 170 pounds pressing down on it to make it happen. With the lighter trigger I'm anticipating the same good groups but a nicer trigger. In any case more than beyond the accuracy I need for a deer round (25-06).

For a comp rifle I would likely be doing a whole lot more work, but for a 6.5lb hunting rifle, I'm happy
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Unread 01-17-2011, 02:44 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vindicated View Post
Thanks for the advice everyone. I am not looking to shoot MOA groups or anything serious. Most of the deer I hunt have been well under 50 yards anyhow.

I decided to just go with the Savage 111, and get the trigger done. Most of these "drop in" triggers require gun smithing, and I am not about to tamper with a firearm for safety reasons. I will take it to a gun smith.

I am not concerned about a plastic stock. Who needs a beautiful gun? The deer don't know what you are shooting. Wood is overrated. Stock flex I think is more of a snob thing than anything. I have seen people shoot SUB MOA groups with polymer stocks. It's the rifleman, not the rifle.

I mean, ****, people were killing stuff at a 100 yards 130 years ago with balls and caps.

Appreciate the advice, really I do everyone.

There is a gun show coming up on February 6th, I am going to see what kind of deals they have there.
You know for a bit more Savage offers the 111 with the accustock and accutrigger?
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Unread 01-17-2011, 03:15 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyotes97 View Post
You know for a bit more Savage offers the 111 with the accustock and accutrigger?
It's $140 more to be almost exact, and yes, I am going to consider it if it's the right price at the show.

However, that accutrigger bugs me a little, because it almost looks and I have heard "feels" like a 2 stage trigger. I don't know if I would like this... I think it would allow me to anticipate the break more so than just a steady pull at 3lbs. What do you think?
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Unread 01-17-2011, 03:16 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ErikJordan View Post
You might also look at the Howa 30-06 as they are the manufacturer for the barrel and action for the Weatherby Vanguard rifled.

I have a heavy barrel Howa .223 rifle and with good ammo you can empty the clip in a dime size hole at 150 yards.

Something to consider if you are on a budget. They actually make some decent stuff.
How comparable is the action and barrel to a Savage would you think?
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Unread 01-17-2011, 04:55 PM   #26
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Nothing wrong with a Savage. I have a Mark II .22 from them and it's a tac driver for sure.

Have you looked at the Savage Axis? http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/

Also look at the Marlin XL-7, as previously mentioned. It's a great gun for the money.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 06:57 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by vindicated View Post
It's $140 more to be almost exact, and yes, I am going to consider it if it's the right price at the show.

However, that accutrigger bugs me a little, because it almost looks and I have heard "feels" like a 2 stage trigger. I don't know if I would like this... I think it would allow me to anticipate the break more so than just a steady pull at 3lbs. What do you think?
I am not sure how much gun show experience you have so I will just say this. Don't expect a whole lot of deals. The best deals are usually individuals walking around selling their own guns.

Yeah, with the accutrigger and accustock I am not sure the Savage can compete with the TC Venture and others. I know for me I would rather have the Tikka once the price hits $500.

The accutigger is not really a 2 stage to me. It takes just a little tension to pull the blade in before you touch the actual trigger. After that you have a creepy single stage. I don't love it but its not bad.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 06:59 PM   #28
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How comparable is the action and barrel to a Savage would you think?
The action is better on the Howa. Savage wins for barrel.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 07:30 PM   #29
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I would not get the I-bolt. I don't like the design of the action, I don't like the plastic stock and that it's not offered with a wood stock. The swivel studs are molded in and it's the forend is too flimsy. I also don't like the one-piece mount base.

The other two are both fine rifles.
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Unread 01-18-2011, 04:20 PM   #30
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Take a look at the Marlin XS7 and XL7. If you must have it it comes with Marlin's version of the Accu-trigger stock for around $300.
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