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Unread 12-16-2013, 04:10 PM   #31
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I don't breed my dogs for the money. I do it so other people can enjoy these great pets. Before you make these remarks you need to consider that there are those of us that to care about what we do.
Well that is good to know because I haven't meet any breeders I can say that about.

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Unread 12-16-2013, 04:49 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by AmbuGrl View Post
Clearly you haven't been on the forum long enough to know the depth of knowledge that some of our forum members have. You want him to seek professional consultation at a cost to find a puppy.

Either way, I still hope the op has enough info to at least get him started in whichever direction he choses to go.
Well, he asked a dog question here, and I, a professional dog trainer and behavioral consultant saw it, so...yes, I do understand that people here have other interests and expertise outside of Jeeps. I don't "want him to seek professional consultation at a cost to find a puppy." I want him to use the right tool for the job. Not everyone here knows as much about dogs as they'd pretend to [because this is a Jeep forum, so why would everyone be a dog expert], and how is he who is clearly novice enough to have questions supposed to know the good advice from the bad advice? Using a more appropriate forum swings the results SIGNIFICANTLY in favor of being good advice.

Not all professionals charge for consultations on matters such as this either, but I did want to essentially warn him that some do. If I know a client well enough to know that my words aren't falling on deaf ears (too often people want an easy answer or just want to hear a professional echo their own assumptions), I do offer basic adoption and nutritional consults for FREE. I don't know the OP. I don't know how serious he his, and I'm not about to presume that he's really willing to absorb a thorough consult such as one I might provide.

As others have said, there are far too many dogs that are in the wrong home or in no home at all because people eagerly jump into dog ownership without proper perparation/education beforehand. Ignorant, eager would-be dog owners encourage over-breeding as well as ignorant breeding which compounds the problem further.

I'm not anti-breeder, but I am EXTREMELY critical of breeders. There are benefits to deliberately-bred pure-breed dogs. However, no one should EVER casually breed dogs. Personally, my first question for any breeder is always "Why do you breed?" and if they don't have a very clear, very specific professional response for me, I'm done with them.

If the OP is interested in my services, my first question for him is, "Why a pure-bred Corgi?"

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Originally Posted by holliewood61 View Post
Before you make these remarks you need to consider that there are those of us that to care about what we do.
I've met many responsible, knowledgeable, professional breeders. I've also met many of the opposite. Plenty of the worthless breeders "care," too. I mean you no offense and am making no assumptions about the quality of your breeding/service, but saying that you care about what you do does not prove to me that you actually know what you are doing.

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Originally Posted by GreenliftedTJ97 View Post
99% of the time fancy full breed AKC registered (insert name of breed here) is a ball of health & temperament problems, find a good healthy mutt in your local shelter.
This is an exaggeration, but not entirely incorrect. The AKC cares only for conformation. They do not care about health or temperament, and their attitudes do trickle-down to many (not all of course) breeders. Popularity of given breeds at any given time creating demand paired with ignorance and attitudes such as the AKC's lead to inbreeding and overbreeding which in turn exacerbate the problems of genetic bottlenecking and founder effects inherent to pure breeds. Many pure breeds have hereditary health and temperament issues to watch-out for. Mutts benefit from hybrid vigor and really are much more healthy physically and mentally on average than pure breeds.

P.S. Here is my personal canine. He is a 2.5-year-old mutt. Aiden is CGC certified on his way to therapy certification and participates casually in agility.
p1020510.jpg

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Unread 12-16-2013, 08:29 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschi772

Well, he asked a dog question here, and I, a professional dog trainer and behavioral consultant saw it, so...yes, I do understand that people here have other interests and expertise outside of Jeeps. I don't "want him to seek professional consultation at a cost to find a puppy." I want him to use the right tool for the job. Not everyone here knows as much about dogs as they'd pretend to [because this is a Jeep forum, so why would everyone be a dog expert], and how is he who is clearly novice enough to have questions supposed to know the good advice from the bad advice? Using a more appropriate forum swings the results SIGNIFICANTLY in favor of being good advice.

Not all professionals charge for consultations on matters such as this either, but I did want to essentially warn him that some do. If I know a client well enough to know that my words aren't falling on deaf ears (too often people want an easy answer or just want to hear a professional echo their own assumptions), I do offer basic adoption and nutritional consults for FREE. I don't know the OP. I don't know how serious he his, and I'm not about to presume that he's really willing to absorb a thorough consult such as one I might provide.

As others have said, there are far too many dogs that are in the wrong home or in no home at all because people eagerly jump into dog ownership without proper perparation/education beforehand. Ignorant, eager would-be dog owners encourage over-breeding as well as ignorant breeding which compounds the problem further.

I'm not anti-breeder, but I am EXTREMELY critical of breeders. There are benefits to deliberately-bred pure-breed dogs. However, no one should EVER casually breed dogs. Personally, my first question for any breeder is always "Why do you breed?" and if they don't have a very clear, very specific professional response for me, I'm done with them.

If the OP is interested in my services, my first question for him is, "Why a pure-bred Corgi?"

I've met many responsible, knowledgeable, professional breeders. I've also met many of the opposite. Plenty of the worthless breeders "care," too. I mean you no offense and am making no assumptions about the quality of your breeding/service, but saying that you care about what you do does not prove to me that you actually know what you are doing.

This is an exaggeration, but not entirely incorrect. The AKC cares only for conformation. They do not care about health or temperament, and their attitudes do trickle-down to many (not all of course) breeders. Popularity of given breeds at any given time creating demand paired with ignorance and attitudes such as the AKC's lead to inbreeding and overbreeding which in turn exacerbate the problems of genetic bottlenecking and founder effects inherent to pure breeds. Many pure breeds have hereditary health and temperament issues to watch-out for. Mutts benefit from hybrid vigor and really are much more healthy physically and mentally on average than pure breeds.

P.S. Here is my personal canine. He is a 2.5-year-old mutt. Aiden is CGC certified on his way to therapy certification and participates casually in agility.
Cute pup!
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Unread 12-17-2013, 05:44 AM   #34
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Unread 12-17-2013, 06:17 AM   #35
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Boondock- good luck finding a new family member and I wish you all the best! Having a canine companion is one of life's greatest joys! It's a friendship that most human friends will never rival!


.....but as for this "pissing for distance" "mines bigger than yours" garbage I'm done with it. If you'd like to chat shoot me a PM.

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Unread 12-17-2013, 07:03 AM   #36
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There are good and bad people in all types of business. I would never assume because a dog is a mutt he is healthy. I am always leery of any dog I don't know where ever it comes from.

I am in MO and there are many puppy mills here that should never be supported. That is why diligence on the part of the buyer is important. Most the high volume breeders that have less than ethical practices ship their animals off to larger pet stores. That is why I would suggest going straight to the breeder, if you desire a pure breed. This way you can meet the breeder, and probably even the pups parents. By doing this you can learn more about the dog then you ever could at a shelter or animal rescue center. By getting a dog straight from he people who can't keep it can get you much better insight into the dog you are getting. Getting them form a rescue center is a crap shoot.

A good person with a good dog will look hard to find it a new owner. Who knows what ends up at the dog rescue/ adoption place/ pound or whatever. If you are bring a animal into your home, esp. a grown one, I recommend you do everything you can to learn about that animal.

There are many good breeders. Put as I stated before and other have stated you figure out what you want and then pick the breed. If your wants or needs are specific you may have a better off with a specific breed.

There are also breeders that sell for very cheap or give away pups that don't have the most desirable traits, such as coloring size or whatever.

My father in law got a wonderful bernese mountain dog for free like this, the catch was no papers.

In a sense even my basset was a "rescue". A young couple bought him, a year later they had a baby that was allergic to him, I even got the papers. I had the dog fixed and never filled the papers.

There are many good full breed dogs out there if that is what you want. If you want to resuce a dog ther are many ways to also do that.
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Unread 12-17-2013, 07:06 AM   #37
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Do 99% of your dogs have medical problems? Here is my basset. I didn't get him from you but I must have gotten lucky to get that 1 out 100 of registered dogs that is healthy.
fail to see what this pic proves besides you have a cute dog, which wasn't the debate but..............
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Unread 12-17-2013, 07:20 AM   #38
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here are a couple of my resuces:

Here is a rescue dog I had, he recently passed. He was was wandering around town. My father in law worked for the city. The dog often came to where he worked looking for scraps and was very friendly and calm. Eventually they had to take him to the vet to be destroyed, he was a day away from death when we took him.



This one we found as a pup in a box in a walmart parking lot. It looks allot mike mshcii's.
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Unread 12-17-2013, 07:28 AM   #39
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fail to see what this pic proves besides you have a cute dog, which wasn't the debate but..............
He is a pure breed that came from a breeder that is healthy. It was stated that there is only a 1% chance of this so I thought because that slim chance of a dog like mine existing I would post a pic.
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Unread 12-17-2013, 08:16 AM   #40
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He is a pure breed that came from a breeder that is healthy. It was stated that there is only a 1% chance of this so I thought because that slim chance of a dog like mine existing I would post a pic.
just saying, pure breeds are known to have a lot of health problems, from cancers to brain aneurysms and beings they are pure breed, a big chance they are some form of puppy mill dog which, sorry, haven't seen a puppy mill dog that wasn't bat **** crazy. not saying that there aren't bad mutts out there, just with mutts, If they have a behavior problem, it probably stems from a human influence somewhere along the line. Your dog is very nice, but it also looks like a very young dog also. Jury is still out. Not here for a fight..... happy holidays
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Unread 12-17-2013, 08:28 AM   #41
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I once knew plenty of breeders who knowingly sold dogs with genetic problems. Particularly golden retrievers with epilepsy or bad hips. One lady insisted on artificially inseminating her females because her male was so old and broken down with hip and neurological problems he couldn't do it on his own. On the other hand, I knew a woman who bred Rottweillers who was very very very keen to making sure they were healthy. She always had great dogs and was more than willing to bottle-feed one or take it to the vet for any reason at all. Never over-bred any of her females and was very choosy on which ones got bred. I loved it when she came to my vet
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Unread 12-17-2013, 08:50 AM   #42
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Unread 12-17-2013, 08:54 AM   #43
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just saying, pure breeds are known to have a lot of health problems, from cancers to brain aneurysms and beings they are pure breed, a big chance they are some form of puppy mill dog which, sorry, haven't seen a puppy mill dog that wasn't bat **** crazy. not saying that there aren't bad mutts out there, just with mutts, If they have a behavior problem, it probably stems from a human influence somewhere along the line. Your dog is very nice, but it also looks like a very young dog also. Jury is still out. Not here for a fight..... happy holidays
This can happen because they inter breed. This can also happen with mutts. If people have pups (mutts or not) and they allow litter mates to breed you can also have these problems, esp. if it goes on for generations. Mutts are not any more selective with whom they breed with that a pure breed. The assumption is that mutts wonder off to reproduce. This is probably truer with mutts than pure breeds (when at the breederís) so chances could be lower with mutts. There will also be breeders that inter breed. But if the same jack *** owner lets his unfixed male and female litter mates roam the chances are great they will make babies. And they can easily end up in a shelter up for adoption.

You really never hear about this because the jack *** that allows this to happen just lets the mutt die. The unknowing person that just spent a grand at the local pet store goes to the Vet and tries to save the overpriced pouch and finds all the bad things out.

That is why I would recommend going to the actual breeder, if you want a pure breed. You can see the history of the lineage. It will be on paper and of course it could be all BS. But this way you want to get recommendations from others.

Any time you get anything and you donít know where it comes from or its history there may be added issues, whether it is a used car or a puppy.
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Unread 12-17-2013, 10:21 AM   #44
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just saying, truth is, puppies mean money to everyone, 'specially now a days sad as it maybe. but you're never gonna hear anyone say that they're not in it for the money, just like everyone here does the speed limit down their street and through everyone else's neighborhood too. The people that breed for the love of it or really CARE what they're producing or really know what they're producing are few and far between these days. Everyone will say I care yada-yada-yada but puppies are like buying cars in the fact that, The guy may be truthful that his mother only drove it to church on Sundays, but then again his kid may have just got done burnin' donuts and doing neutral drops with it before you pulled up, beings that its a sports car, just raises the likelihood of it.
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Unread 12-17-2013, 10:59 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by purplepig View Post
but I cringe every time I see people breeding and selling dogs when it is clear they are in it only for the money.
That actually made me laugh.

So it's sounds like you're upset with the breeders when you should be upset with the people who are buying animals they are not prepared to take care of...
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