[RMeak]

Well I do not know if Concealed carry laws have changed but a few years back, about ten to be exact, all I had to do was go to the sherriffs office, prove I obtained a gun legally, and fill out some paper work for a back ground check and a few days later if all was good then voila, permit.

What does bother me is how did this guy, a Korean Alien Resident, get a gun legally. Hell, thanks to Slick Willy, I had to wait two damb weeks when I bought my 9mm for a background check and I had a Top Secret security clearance.

[ionakana]

Originally Posted by 2005Unlimited

Well I am not sure where we are going with this. But do college students have discipline. 21 - 28 years old.

The reaction time should be just about the same for MP's as it is for college cops.

I have worked as an MP, Corrections and MP investigator. You have stupid people every where. Does not mean everyone should carry a gun. You have your murders, rapists, serial killers everything in the military just not as much as the civilian world because we are not as big.

yes, there are rapist, murderers and serial killers everywhere. Taking guns away from law abiding people doesn't stop them. A 45 will though! The sight of a gun will probably scare them off. Maybe the college cops have a quick reaction time, they didn't yesterday. Your local police will not be that fast but if your lucky and they are close, you still have that time period you are waiting that you need to defend yourself, family or friends.

My ex girlfriend thought we needed to get rid of guns to reduce crime until she was attacked in a parking deck a few years ago, she carrys a pistol now. Yes, she has had training on how to use it.

[RMeak]

Originally Posted by RepublicanJeepr

You guys both must have been in a different military than I was. I was in the Air Force and if you lived in base housing, you could have as many guns as you wanted. You just couldn't have them in the dorms. I was also a Security Policeman and was trusted with a fully loaded, one in the chamber, on fire, 9mm Baretta and an M-16 everyday when I was only 18 years old. As an SP, we were charged with armory duty. The owner of the any guns stored in the armory could pick them up any time they wanted. The armory was manned 24 hours a day.

Dorms(for the Airforce) Barracks for the rest of us. In the Barracks yes, I had to contact my 1SG or Commander who would call the armor. On base housing I do not know but off-post who cared.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by RMeak

Well I do not know if Concealed carry laws have changed but a few years back, about ten to be exact, all I had to do was go to the sherriffs office, prove I obtained a gun legally, and fill out some paper work for a back ground check and a few days later if all was good then voila, permit.

What does bother me is how did this guy, a Korean Alien Resident, get a gun legally. Hell, thanks to Slick Willy, I had to wait two damb weeks when I bought my 9mm for a background check and I had a Top Secret security clearance.

Prove you obtained a gun legally? Down here you just fill out a form at the Sheriff's Office and pay $7.50. And are you seriously pissed about having to wait on a background check? I'm pro-gun but I think it's a good idea to find out if the guy wanting to buy a pistol is a convicted murderer.

[myrockfight]

Originally Posted by 2005Unlimited

Yes there are alot of people that come back for the service and go to college. Many of them have used a weapon many time's in there time in the service. You want service members or any one else that can get this permit to carry guns on school grounds, to malls, or anywhere else they go to make things that just happen not happen as often, hopefully never. I don't see how that is going to stop stupid people from doing something they are determined they are going to do.

Take the military. People that have been thur training for many years. Weapons training, leadership training, alot of diffrent trainins to make them the most prepared person for war. And they are not allowed to carry a gun on base unless they are under arms. Hell if you have a gun on base it has to be in an armory.

So sure, if the United States Government can spend 1000's of dollars to train there service members to properly use weapons, and know when and how to use deadly force; and still not let service members to carry on base. Must be a trust issue. What makes you think your college person being 21 to 28 or what ever it is that may have been thru some training if any to get this permit should be able to carry a loaded gun anywhere he goes, and let him determine when he should shoot, or kill someone. I guess you trust alot of people. I have a hard time understanding that. Mabey if you ever lost someone in a cross fire or seen it, it does happen, you may think a little different, about everyone carring a gun that is allowed too.


If not well I hope I never get into an argument with someone like you. You may just end up shooting me over a parking space.

No. I haven't ever lost anyone to a cross-fire incident or friendly fire, etc. If that is why you think that no-one should carry or be trusted with a weapon, that is a personal issue that you have to deal with. I am truly sorry for your loss. Let me also say that you are due a tremendous amount of respect for serving our country.

However, your personal experiences with people and thus your perception of them, doesn't make them into what you see them to be.

To live the in the U.S., or in any other country that grants its citizens rights, certain truths must be assumed and taken for granted. We assume that (the majority of) people are going to obey most of the laws most of the time. Without doing so, you couldn't
-drive through a green light without expecting to be T-boned and killed
-pay someone for a product/service before they complete it and expect to recieve the product/service

Most people follow laws because they know that their quality of life depends on people doing so. Even gangbangers live by certain codes and respect those codes within their gangs. On the battlefield, to be a successful soldier and part of a successful unit, you assume that you will not be killed by friendly fire. If you didn't have that assumption, you would not step on the battlefield at all, and you would be completely ineffective. Once you do not operate under these assumptions, you are rendered useless to yourself and your fellow soldiers.

With that said, the military knows that there are exceptions to the rule and **** happens. Everyone knows this. That is why there are both preparations to keep it from happening at all - communications,tactics, and hardware are always being upgraded. There is also the threat of retribution for negligence and outright disregard for other's rights (including the right to live) through a court martial.

It is our job, as citizens, to make sure punishment is held for those that are responsible for negligence and disregard. Those punishments should be very harsh to not only punish those responsible, but to (more importantly) act as a deterrent to commiting crimes.

Our laws are formed as both a guide to keep us from trampling on each others rights and as a deterrent. Thus we have the Constitution as a guide of guides, if you will. The Bill of Rights also provides us with the same.

My point being - Concealed Weapons Permits (which, in FL covers not only covers guns, but other weapons as well) are given their weight by being passed as law. This law happens to fall under the deterrent category. It keeps people from committing felonies under the threat of the most severe punishment we can offer - death. Therefore it is extremely effective in counter-acting criminals, because they know that if they commit a felony, they could likely be killed.

The permit holder is deterred by both the criminal and civil aspect of the laws. If he/she does not act reasonably, he/she is subject to being punished under those laws, and very well should be. It is of note, that crime is virtually non-existent among permit holders - literally.

"The most comprehensive and carefully done examination of successful defensive gun uses by civilians determined that there were in excess of 2.5 million DGU s each year, with 400,000 incidents in which the victim believed that using the gun (almost always by brandishing) almost certainly saved an innocent life. In Florida , between Oct. 1987 and April 1994 only 18 crimes were committed by permitees out of 221,443 permit holders. Multnomah County, Oregon, has issued 11,140 permits between 1990 and 1994 and experienced 5 permit holders involved in shootings, 3 were deemed justified by Grand Juries, one was an accidental rifle firing while being unloaded, and one was an assault. In Texas by the end of 1996 82,000 permits had been issued and only one permitted fatal shooting had occurred. The shooting was deemed justified."


The bottom line: Whether you want to accept it or not, most people follow the law that we know is there to help us from stepping on each other's rights. It is also there to deter those that don't care about our rights, especially the essential ones (the right to live without the threat of bodily harm).



P.S. -This post largely is for everyone else. Your thoughts were rational and you were starting to sound like you actually could think logically until you made the comment about thinking I would shoot you or anyone else over a parking space. I am an extremely peacable person. I would probably give you the parking space even if I was there first, while happily waving you to take it - especially if you looked or sounded like you really need it. If you are willing to quabble over a parking spot, I know your life is harder than mine. Those are the assumptions I make of people.

You apparantly have a personal issue that invokes so much emotion you cannot use reason. Maybe it is warranted by your personal experiences, but I truly wish you the best in resolving those issues. I also truly hope that those experiences were not because of your experiences in the service. It makes apparent the impossiblity of repaying those who serve in our armed forces. I wish more people realized that.


Edited to add source of quote: http://www.mnccrn.org/ccrn_old/faq/faq.html

[2005Unlimited]

So those people that decide to carry legally. They may carry 9mm, 45 what have you. The crazy guy we are talking about, most likely will know down the road that there are more guns out there right.
So this crazy guy knowing all this, don't you think they may just get automatic weapons to pull the crap they want to do.
Are you going to stick your head out and try to hit this guy with your 9mm while he is putting 20 rounds down range to your one.

More gun will not stop the crazy's. Take the two guys in LA that robbed that bank a few years ago. Took out all those cops. With automatic weapons. Now the cops have there own automatic weapons. So that will not happen again hopefully.

So down the road you are going to want the same people that you want now to have there CCW to have the abiltiy to carry a fully auto weapon It will never stop.

[RMeak]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

Prove you obtained a gun legally? Down here you just fill out a form at the Sheriff's Office and pay $7.50. And are you seriously pissed about having to wait on a background check? I'm pro-gun but I think it's a good idea to find out if the guy wanting to buy a pistol is a convicted murderer.

whats your point, maybe I just do not get it. Are you asking me to prove I odtained a gun Legally? Are you issuing that I am pissed that I had to have a back ground check. If so...Yessss I obtained a gun legally, and no I am not pissed I had to have a back ground check, actually I went through a personal identity enema to get my security clearance if you must know. What is pissing me off is that our legal to obtain laws seem to have gotten laxed.

[ionakana]

Originally Posted by 2005Unlimited

So those people that decide to carry legally. They may carry 9mm, 45 what have you. The crazy guy we are talking about, most likely will know down the road that there are more guns out there right.
So this crazy guy knowing all this, don't you think they may just get automatic weapons to pull the crap they want to do.
Are you going to stick your head out and try to hit this guy with your 9mm while he is putting 20 rounds down range to your one.

More gun will not stop the crazy's. Take the two guys in LA that robbed that bank a few years ago. Took out all those cops. With automatic weapons. Now the cops have there own automatic weapons. So that will not happen again hopefully.

So down the road you are going to want the same people that you want now to have there CCW to have the abiltiy to carry a fully auto weapon It will never stop.

no, but atleast they would have a a chance, not just a defenseless victim. I guess it's better for everyone to be defenseless, God forbid someone be able to shoot back and maybe save a few lives.

[Jeepdawgs]

Read the last replies. Different laws for different states on CCW permits. What the hell is wrong with having a federal standards laws for obtaining a CCW? Different laws for different areas makes for too many loopholes.

[myrockfight]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

Prove you obtained a gun legally? Down here you just fill out a form at the Sheriff's Office and pay $7.50. And are you seriously pissed about having to wait on a background check? I'm pro-gun but I think it's a good idea to find out if the guy wanting to buy a pistol is a convicted murderer.

I believe he finds it a bit frustrating that you have to wait two weeks for a gun, even though he is cleared for Top Security. Obviously, if you have that type of clearance, you have most likely had your innards gone over with a fine tooth comb and your on file with the FBI, etc.

In Florida, you don't have to wait at all if you have a Concealed Weapons Permit, for that very reason.

[RMeak]

Originally Posted by Jeepdawgs

Read the last replies. Different laws for different states on CCW permits. What the hell is wrong with having a federal standards laws for obtaining a CCW? Different laws for different areas makes for too many loopholes.

I knew if we tried we could blame Bush for something having to do with this tragedy...J/K

[2005Unlimited]

Originally Posted by ionakana

no, but atleast they would have a a chance, not just a defenseless victim. I guess it's better for everyone to be defenseless, God forbid someone be able to shoot back and maybe save a few lives.

It took an army of cops to take those two guys out. Body armor. It will just get worse. If you carry by all means carry. Don't talk someone else into carrying just because of these stupid people.
Hell, DC snipers ring a bell. We should all wear body armor then just in case.

[yj_ryn]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/17/schneider.gun.control/index.html

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by RMeak

whats your point, maybe I just do not get it. Are you asking me to prove I odtained a gun Legally? Are you issuing that I am pissed that I had to have a back ground check. If so...Yessss I obtained a gun legally, and no I am not pissed I had to have a back ground check, actually I went through a personal identity enema to get my security clearance if you must know. What is pissing me off is that our legal to obtain laws seem to have gotten laxed.

Maybe you need to calm down and read my post again. I was merely commenting that while you have to prove your gun was legally obtained, Alabama doesn't even have THAT requirement. As for the rest of my post, yes, you came across as pissed off that purchasing a firearm required a background check.

[92 Green YJ]

Originally Posted by 2005Unlimited

Well I am not sure where we are going with this. But do college students have discipline. 21 - 28 years old.

The reaction time should be just about the same for MP's as it is for college cops.

I have worked as an MP, Corrections and MP investigator. You have stupid people every where. Does not mean everyone should carry a gun. You have your murders, rapists, serial killers everything in the military just not as much as the civilian world because we are not as big.

maybe, but an MP does have a gun, I have yet to see a college cop carry anything more than some mace or the rare tazer. so what good would a wannabe cop doing college campus security carrying a can of mace going to do against a lunatic with two pistols? Not a damn thing